The Headhunter’s Playbook: When to Lateral, When to Stay, and How to Pivot with Lameck Kefela

Welcome to Studying Law Around the World. I'm Claudio Claus. In each episode, I talk with lawyers, law students, and professors from different parts of the world to talk about legal education, careers, and what the profession looks like in real life. We talk about the hard parts, the surprises, and the decisions that shaped their paths. Whether you're planning to study abroad, thinking about working in another legal system, or just curious about how law works around the world, this podcast is for you. Today I have the opportunity to be speaking with Lamic Cathala. Thank you so much for taking the time to be in the podcast today and to share a few of your thoughts. I appreciate it. Well, Claudio, thank you so much for having me here. Likewise, I really appreciate you taking the time and should take this opportunity. For our listeners who are, you know, listening to you for the first time, I want to ask you if you could introduce yourself and share a little bit about who you are and what you do these days. Absolutely. Yeah. If I ever ramble on Claudio, please let me know. But to to make a Long story short, and my name is Lamic Falam. I'm a recruitment consultant for for Smith Legal Search and as as a way of a brief TV if you will. I went to law school at the University of Ottawa. Soon after I simmered an article that Lutra Nexen, which was a lovely experience. And following that I, I worked at a legal tech startup doing a lot of commercial contracting or fast agreements and everything in between. And yeah. And at some point I decided to, to make that switch over into recruitment land. And it's, it's been 2 years since and it's been, it's been a lot of fun, made a lot of friends along the way. Oh, that's amazing. Very, very excited to just speak with you a little bit about, you know, the Toronto market and, and what it means to be, you know, a legal consultant. So yeah, you just said, you know, moving from practicing law to recruitment. If I may ask you, you know a little bit of what prompted that shift and maybe what strengths from practice you believe that help you serve your candidates and clients right now? Absolutely. So it, it, it's funny, it's multifaceted. A little bit of, of, of how I landed into recruitment. I will say it, it started, it started during the OC. I process at least my interest will speak then, you know, as you get this, you go through networking and get to know some of the, the student recruiters from these different firms. I, I found myself connecting very well with them And, and I just found their position quite fascinating, as most of them are aware or are still practicing lawyers. And so I began inquiring just on a high level basis and sort of they said to me, you know, you practice for a few years and then you sort of like revisit that conversation then. And, and I said, well, no problem. So I was very interested and intrigued from the, the internal side of recruitment initially. And then while I was working at my tax starter at the tech startup, Smith Legal had a position open and, and they said something along the lines of, are you an articling student or a new call who may be realizing that practice is not for them? And I said, well, this ad is quite literally speaking to me. I very much enjoyed law school and, and, and the academic side of, of, of the law. I'll didn't enjoy too much practicing. I did it. I felt I was very constrained to my computer and a lot of my work was just that. And there wasn't as much human connection to my, to that, that felt enough for me. That was sufficient. And so, and so ultimately I decided to, to take that leap and, and, and interview for the position and always sort of like going back to recruitment. I think about the idea of would I regret this if I don't apply? And felt very much a strong guess for me that I would regret it if I at least did not consider it. And I had a conversation and the rest is history. And I joined the team and it's, it's been amazing since on the how did the, how did practice assist me, help me? I would say, you know, every day, like, you know, it can be as simple as understanding a little bit about practice areas and like what, what does the practice entail? And, and sort of understanding the level of responsibility and, and responsibility that an associate or partner or legal counsel may have on a specific file. I'm not here to say that I'm an expert in all of them, but at least having that base understanding so that I can be a bit of a ping pong match in terms of I understand what you're saying. I think like what you're looking for is spicy and, but it could be also, you know, I've, I've redlined a few, a few employment offers alongside my candidates where they found some language that perhaps wasn't the best or they didn't necessarily like it. And so I've taken it to, you know, the kind of the night together we went at it and then, you know, made some, some some suggestions. And so, you know, you see it, you see it here and there and, and let the last one on in this that's different school of thoughts. Some say, you know, obviously the legal profession is one that's quite insular and insulated. And so when you are recruiter that is also a lawyer, it helps in those conversations. That's dependent on who you ask, but I I think generally doesn't really help that much. But it is definitely a bonus for sure. Amazing. I, I see that, you know, supervising multiple practice areas, you know, through, you know, corporate finance, litigation, regulatory work, There's a lot of different areas there. And I wanted to know, you know, what are you seeing in the Toronto market this winter? Is there a demand rising? Where is it flat? What are some of the the updates you got to share with us? Yeah. I mean, it's one of my favorite questions to answer. And obviously, you know, it varies based on the quarter, based on the time of the season. I would say 2025 I, and I think you've probably heard this many times, it was a, it was quite a choppier and frankly I would argue that it's been a choppy season from from 2023. I remember my time during articling and sort of looking for opportunities the following my auditing and, and it was quite difficult and labour and employment and litigation were the dominant practice areas. I would say especially litigation and the last two years has seen an increase in demand that was quite unprecedented and, and so as well as restructuring and insolvency. But you know, going back into what we're seeing right now. So as I mentioned, 2025 was quite the choppy year. Litigation was still raining supreme for the first half and then we saw bit of a shift occurring around April where we started seeing more core premium socialites making laterals granted and I'm if it's been a pivot from private practice to in house. And so largely a lot of firms were were were were quite happy with this result. As you know, it would allow them to as associates were not billing and the deal flow was not as expected. They had associates that were underutilized. And so this was a very welcome sort of like, you know, exodus, if you will. And so now what we're seeing is that deal flow is up ticking. And so some firms are moving early. And, and, and because they understand that with the demand and deal flow rising and many of their associates having made the pivot in house, their current bench strength is not as as good as they, they would like it to be. So some firms are moving early. We we're seeing that corporate money is definitely been been at the forefront and sort of like what firms are looking for. And I would say other areas to to look out for this year's project finance has been one of the busiest subsection of banking and finance securitization. So banking and finance in general in general as well as the regulatory side of the practice. And then I would say infrastructure MP3 is one that's curiously rising. We've seen sort of like the the budget for 2020, the budget released by the federal government with a strong emphasis on building more and building more in Canada. To that end, you're seeing a lot of, you're seeing some firms sort of recognize shifting their groups and having specialized groups, some already existed and perhaps they're just bolstering them more. So you've seen some marketing efforts, you're seeing some more interest from firms to like get deepening their bench or creating an entire new group. So I would say like it's one area that has not necessarily seen a massive optic, but one that I would want to watch closely. And under litigation side, we we've sort of set a time and time again over the last year that is that window tightens the window where like on a practice area is so busy and so in demand will eventually die off. It's it's part of cycles. And so we weren't sort of like the litigation associates who were interesting in lateral link that the opportunities will be far and few in between in the coming year. And that is sort of what we're seeing as of now. So litigation boutiques are still in the hunt, but commercial litigation as a whole national at the national level is just not as prevalent. And then lastly, I would say watch out for construction litigation for sure if specific on the commercial side. And then I would say international trade I think will be another one that is going to be quite in demand as well as competition. And so that's sort of like my overview obviously, you know, just like they're just projections and so like you can never hold me to them. But like based on what we've been seeing, I would say for a corporate money associate, either capital market securities or even private MA, CBC or anything like that in that in that sphere would would likely be quite busy. And then for infrastructure and banking and finance, it would be my top three picks. Fantastic. Well, thanks for the quite comprehensive update on on what the markets looking like. Always much appreciated. And since you mentioned this in the beginning, I think you you said something about, you know, some kind of an exodus a living firms and going into different positions. So I think that that's something that comes to mind to many associates, you know, weigh in weathering house, private practice, what makes sense in which stage of their careers and what they want to do out of their careers. And I wanted to know, you know, if you're talking to, you know, 2021 through 2024 calls, how should they think through, you know, the timing, the skills, the compensation? I think there's a lot of points here that you're quite the person you're talking about. So I'd love to hear your thoughts. Yeah, it's, it's fascinating. I think some of it is embedded sort of like even in law school, I recall, you know, you go to Bay Street, you go for three years and then you go in house. I always jokingly say that make pastry is a little bit like the McDonald's of corporate lawyers is, you know, like that Donald is the first job you got out of high school. It looks good on your resume, you know, teaches you a lot. And then you just kind of like go wherever you you wish. There is some truth to that. At the same time, people need to I always sort of ask the question why, why and how and why now because it's, it's it's relevance is, is that a question of billables? Like a lot of people are tied to their Bibles. They don't like the unpredictability their private practice provides, which is absolutely fair. It's hard to plan around your, your, your, your day-to-day, but as well as like you know, outlook for the next quarter or the next half of year. So at the same time, what people often fail to realize is that in house is an entirely, entirely different world provided depending on industry, depending on your role. So there will be certain industries that will pay closer to private practice, but at the same time, they have a higher expectations in terms of like what your day-to-day looks like. So it's not always a lofty and frankly almost never is a lofty 9:00 to 5:00. So, and the, the practice also changes. So you're no longer a revenue generator, you're you're effectively a cost centre. So you need to provide effective legal risk, understand and effectively go advice by understanding the different legal risks that accompanies willing to to be subject to and and that involves having conversations with different departments within the company and really be embedded in it. And so oftentimes people don't realize that you don't need five page memo. They just want to understand whether or not this can be achieved. And if not, how can we achieve it? And what what is the risk that we may be subject to? So that's the part that people tend to not not fully appreciate as opposed to. And the other thing when it goes to in house is you do end up punting sort of like the work when it gets very exciting and very sophisticated over to the over to to external council. So if you're the type of person that generally enjoys tackling multi sophisticated of issues and, and transactions, then I would would really consider where, where in house sits for you. And so I, I frequently have conversations with associates that will say, well, we completed the transaction and then we just kind of like sent them over and we don't we, we don't see the implementation. And so that's a person that actually may be good for in house, like they want to actually seek out what the result of that, whatever legal transaction or, or legal disputes they were part of. So that's someone that usually tells me that may, may be more ready than others because if it's just being tied to the billables and like, sort of like the pressures of private practice, there are alternatives within the private practice sphere that may work better for you as opposed to work going directly in house. In terms of timing, it depends. It always depends. I hate to give the lawyer answer to this, but you know, effectively the more junior you are, the more challenging it, the more challenging it becomes to make that transition in house and and what are you, you want to be able to really get into? The best way to explain this is like you're, you're, you're automatic, you're somewhat cutting yourself off from private practice if you're doing decide to go in very early. And so like, are you OK with that decision of letting go of this private practice world as it is quite challenging to get back into it, especially when you're more junior. And so I, I always say like, you know, with, as long as you can withstand private practice, my advice is to stay as long as you can, because no other like in house is not going to give you the same level of speed of execution, variety of files that that private practice would otherwise provide you with, as well as the training and just the hours, right? So, so that's sort of like my, my big ass. I hope, I hope I touched on all the points, but please feel free to to to remind me of any other questions that I may have missed in that, in that question of yours. No, I really appreciate that it. It helps a lot to know what the feet looks like and that maybe that's not a national like a natural transition for most people. It really depends on personality, on what they enjoy doing and all of that. Also still kind of on the, on the situation of personality and, and the kind of work you like doing and all of that. I noticed that, you know, some of the searches, searches in that have been advertised sits somewhat close to the C-Suite level. And, and I'm very curious, you know, about what in a way separates those lawyers who thrive in a business facing role versus those who might struggle with this transition or even that, you know, as a recruiter or a consultant, you might tell them, hey, maybe this is not a good fit for you or, or maybe you choose not to recommend this specific person should this kind of role. What what are some some thoughts on that? Yeah. No, absolutely. And I think when it comes to those type of role where you're sitting very closely to six weeks, I think you have to learn how to do more with less and sort of like going back to the idea of, you know, you're a cost centre, right. So can you provide quite effective and quick business, business and legal advice to to the stakeholders? So that is something that some lawyers often struggle with, especially if they're coming straight out of private practice or perhaps even say like government positions where the pace is, is a lot slower and the process a lot more academic. The same goes for private practice, frankly. Like if someone has to make a report, they're gonna make that upport quite extensive. But at the C-Suite, sort of like the, the, the chief legal officers or those, those type of roles, they require you to do like again, more with less. So like if someone asked you, I need this, can we do this quick, like quick turn around? Can you also command the ship if you have people that report to you, Do you know how to boost morale, keep people up and also advocate for your department, right? So again, going back when you're in private practice, you get a lot of like nice little nifty perks, right? So like you'll get the Uber after hours or you get certain different things that happen that otherwise not necessarily always available in house, right? So can you as like a, as a leader of your, of your legal team, can you go and say, we need to add another junior? We need to have a budget allocated to like, you know, fun nights out, whatever it may be, right? Are you able to sort of extend up and have that kind of personality where you can go up to the CEO? Because frankly, that is often who you end up reporting to and sort of saying these are the needs of my team. And and so those are the few things that that I tried to look for a bit of mock fee, if you will. So that's, you know, aside from being a excellent legal practitioner, do you have that type of personality where it's like you don't, you don't run away from conflict. You had it, you face it head on and and you try to also provide effective solutions. Amazing. Very, very, very interesting. I'm trying to think here about, you know, kind of digging into those ideas of personality and all of that. And I think there is something very interesting that that I've seen you posting about before and that is spoking somewhat frequently. It's about, you know, when is usually a good time to make moves when you are most, you know, marketable, then the market, you know, once you absorb people. So so overall speaking, what are some thoughts on, you know, if you're planning on leaving a law firm, for example, which year should you be looking into that? When is you know a good time when you're not Should junior but also not your senior? Tell me more. I mean, I can talk about this topic for hours because it's one of my, and again lawyer answer, it depends. But I would say the sweet spot is generally the three to five year mark. And so the reason for that is you are still junior enough that you can sort of absorb the culture of a different firm or a different company, whatever it may be. And so you can still like make a run for partner if that's something that you're interested in. And more importantly, firms at that point, at that stage still higher for ceiling. So yes, they want sort of like the core competencies, but they're all they're willing and open to maybe close one eye if there's something that may be missing because they could see the potential of like of your talent. And so the three-year mark is a good, is a good sort of like a placeholder because by that year articling you don't know nothing and knowing you're not expected to know anything first. Yeah, you're expected to know everything, but you know nothing. Second year, you start becoming a little bit more comfortable, but you're also becoming more comfortable with the idea of knowing nothing. In your third year, you're finally in a place where you have a little bit more autonomy over files. You sometimes even have a junior reporting to your an articling student. And so you have a level of familiarity that puts you that makes you a bit more confident. And you've seen sort of like the type of documents and files that are that are frequent. And so that puts you in a position where if there were to take you and plug you into another in a in a different environment and a different world, it's not like you're starting from zero. And so that's sort of why that that third year mark is often like the benchmark, granted, their associates can leave earlier or after or before, but that third year mark usually puts in a good spot. And then, you know, there are different considerations, right? So for instance, the 5th year mark is the opposite of that because by fifth year, especially if you're intending on making a private practice, lateral firms may be wondering, well, why is he at this point, at this stage in his career? Why are they not making a push for partner it within their own firm? But there is sort of like a the goalpost chefs in terms of competencies and, and and it makes them more challenging. It doesn't give you the same level of options as you would if you were a third or fourth year. And you know, once again to the 6th and the 7th, it generally becomes increasingly more challenging unless it's a council position or, you know, there's a promise of partnership on the other end. But there in in generally there may be like, you know, at least some form of CBD involved. Are you building some kind of bug? Are you, do you have some kind of clients, even cancer of the smaller level? And so the, the, the sort of like the, the, the goalpost and the, and the benchmarks that the firms use tip heavily sort of like in favor of real proof of evidence that you're doing and you're exceeding and expectations within your current firm, if that makes sense. No, absolutely. He really does. And for in house, I would say I same thing. 3 to 5 is great for in house, like post five, I think you'd be able to find positions. And then if anything, you may be able to find positions with titles that are like greater than legal counsel, perhaps senior legal counsel. If it's a small team, you may even get like a higher position, especially with the more seniority that you have. So that that is a little bit different. And that is why I say it depends. Absolutely no, that's amazing. Thank you so much for for, for explaining that so, so nicely. If I may ask you, you know, kind of leading towards the end of our conversation today, I'm wondering is there, you know, some kind of step or some kind of thing that that associates could do or maybe an action that could, they could take throughout this month to create opportunities and options for, for the next semester or for, you know, Quel 4 later this year? What are what are some things that that you would you know who are recommended to like maybe like open more? Options yeah I I would talk to every single person that you can and like honestly like for instance, very much loved sort of what you what you've done with the University of Toronto celebrating the 75th anniversary. That's great, right? Like you also have a point of a reason for the reach out, right? But at the same time, lawyers love to take a chance, especially if you're junior and I say you're, you won't have the same amount of time and the same amount of sort of like novelty to you then your first three years of practice, even as an articling student. And so that is when people are willing to carry out. And that is what and I say always say just to send the e-mail or send a LinkedIn message and follow up, following up. I'd say like, it's half the game. You know, oftentimes these people are busy, their inboxes probably a mess. So make it a habit of following up because it's not, they don't like you. It's probably like you've caught them at a bad time. And the second, third follow-up will probably be a time where there may be in, in a better place where they can answer. So always follow up, have as many conversations as you can. And, and, and I genuinely mean that because first of all, it allows you to really refine how you view your practice and what you're doing. And 2nd, it gives you an opportunity to generally understand what people are doing. And it could, it could be in your practice area or a practice that you're interested in or a whole different 1. And so have as many conversations as you can, especially in your article, not just within the bounds of your firm, but outside of it as well. So that is my best advice. And I would say treated almost as working out like you want to do it in a way where I say have an Excel spreadsheet, have like the people that you've reached out to. When was the first time that you reached out to? Did they get back to you? Did they not get back to you? Then have a follow up, right? And so like treated almost as a job because nothing else will open more opportunities than than that really having as many conversations as possible. And then my other one is sort of like branding and I it's so funny, like I despise LinkedIn for the longest time I found it in so cringy. I thought like, you know, like, you know, I was jokingly say I'm a LinkedIn warrior, but there is a way to use your voice and nothing has the same level of reach that linked it otherwise has. And it doesn't always have to be understood observation on a recent Supreme Court of Canada hearing or the, the, the, the sexiest transaction that occurred in, in the first quarter. It could, it could just be very simple, sort of like where I got my coffee or what I, you know, like very basic, very personal. Those actually tend to be the ones that do quite well. But like allowing yourself to be visible. That's sort of the name of the game. The more visible you are, the more opportunities are open to you. And I've seen that with the associates that tend to be quite high performing that will have, they will have some form of voice on LinkedIn, whether it's purely academic or whether it's, you know, just like a mix. Those are the ones that want to be visible and go out of their way to do so. But that's sort of like my my answer. I hope. I hope that was exhaustive. Now that was amazing. Really appreciate you taking the time. Really appreciate all the advice and and thank you all for tuning into today's episode. Yeah, thank you so much guys, and thank you for having me. This is so much fun. Absolutely was. Thank you.