Cross-Border Law and Global Practice with Tomas Ballarati

Welcome to studying law around the world. I'm Claudio Claus. In each episode I talk. With lawyers, law students. And professors from different. Parts of the. World to talk about legal. Education Careers. And what the profession looks like in real life. We talk about the hard parts. The surprises and the decisions that. Shaped their paths whether you're planning to study abroad, thinking about. Working in another legal system. Or just curious about how law works around the world? This podcast is for you. This episode of Studying War Around the World is proudly sponsored by ITL Prep from imant Exam Prep, the comprehensive resource designed specifically for internationally trained lawyers preparing for DMCA exams. We understand that the NCA accreditation journey can feel overwhelming. You can face many obstacles getting to success courses that cost too much, offer too little, or leave you more confused than when you started. 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Visit imans dot Ch today. That's Edmond, and use promo code ITL 50 to claim your 50% discount on NCA exam preparation courses. So many of the guests on this podcast have talked about how important it is to have strong writing skills as a lawyer. It's true, written communication is essential in this profession, but it can also be one of the trickiest skills to master. If you find your writing feels a bit clunky, or you're getting a lot of edits on your work, or perhaps you're breaking into an English speaking jurisdiction for the first time, Grammatica International can help. I'm Rebecca Lockwood, the lawyer, mediator and educator behind Grammatica, and we help lawyers and law students to write more sharply, speak more clearly, and advance their careers with group training and one-on-one skills coaching designed just for legal professionals. I have worked with so many lawyers like you who are exceptionally smart, qualified and capable, but need a bit of guidance to stand out in a competitive legal market. And I get it myself, having lived and worked in five countries during my 17 years in law and education. Whether you're looking to sharpen your writing skills, generally refresh your CV, or draft an application for a law program, Grammatica can help. Visit gramatica.co to learn more. Today have the opportunity to talk with Tomas Ballari. He is an Argentinian and American lawyer. He has had quite the journey studying in Cordoba and George Mason University. In the US. And now he's both licensed in Argentina and California. Thank you so much for taking the time to be with us today. Thank you very much for inviting. Me amazing. And to to start off our episode, Thomas, could you start by introducing yourself and sharing a little bit about your background? So well, born and raised in Argentina, Cordova, it's a city with very strong legal tradition. There's a lot of lawyers. There's one of the oldest law schools in the, in the cold of the Americas. I think it's like the both or the 5th oldest law school, you know, older than Harbor even. And there's a very strong presence of law firms and international local operations. So I, you know, eventually when I turn 18, I want to collect the university there. I saw the lot. I got my JB over there. And then, you know, ultimately my path took me to wanted to expand to privacy in the US. So I went ahead and did an LLM in George Mason in Virginia and the US, and I've been working with a California-based law firm and that's so far what I've been doing. Fantastic. And I love that you already mentioned a little bit about your passing law and and also why eventually you went to the US, But I'd love to hear a little bit about, you know, these experiences. And also, now that you're licensed to practice in both countries, if you could share with us a little bit of, you know, the challenges and the rewarding parts of building this practice that that goes across borders. Now, well, I guess, you know, I guess it all started when I once lost school in Argentina. I guess that sort of natural choice because of the strong process of law firms and these particular college that has a very longstanding legal tradition. You know, sort of at the beginning, I sort of didn't know. I guess like many students, I wasn't sure exactly what area of law I wanted to pursue. I think, you know, make law students going to law school and they just, you know, probably had a lawyer in their family or they watched a lot of lawyer movies and they just found it, you know, intriguing. And they went to lost, but they didn't really know much. And I, you know, I think that's kind of where I was going. But then, you know, as I take class after class after class, you know, you start shaping what you like and I found myself photo gravitating towards subjects like international or court law and then noise. They, you know, that job right up last month, marinas as soon as I started working as sorry, as soon as I started studying for my first year of law school, I got it down and I would do, you know, sort of both things simultaneously. And you know, the job that I do, it had a very strong component. And so that kind of would mean a position where it started dealing with a lot of companies and a lot of corporate clients. And, you know, I started realizing, well, you know, things are not like us, you know, strictly local as I had expected, because I, you know, I, I wanted to law school with the understanding that many people are apologies. Well, laws changed from different jurisdictions, either going to law school in order while you're going to practice the quarter, you're going to go to law school in Toronto. And I quickly learned that was not the case. I learned that these companies, they operate all around the world and they need lawyers that can help them sort of navigate, you know, whatever business they're gonna do. But it's in the US or in Europe or in South America. So, you know, I, I eventually graduated from law school and I kept working with these companies and I started working with American clients. And, you know, the more I work with them, the more I realized I sort of had to take a leap of faith and, you know, try myself studying law in, in the US as well. So I enrolled in an L in George Mason University that's in Virginia. And after I asked my classes and I got my degree, then I start with the parks. I'm in California and I passed it and I'm just now finalizing the last steps to get my license and hopefully soon I'll get that. And in the meantime, I've been working with, you know, other colleagues that are already like this and we're advising clients and corporate matters between mainly between two jurisdictions, but sometimes, you know, not just Argentina and the US, but our countries. And so I'm starting to build this, you know, career where, you know, this corporate clients. There is so much need of these lawyers that have licenses in both countries, which is very rare, you know, and then trying to, you know, help other people, help other students as well. I'm counseling something student organizations. So how they can do the same thing that I get and, you know, try to get their licenses across different jurisdictions because it's necessary. I've been seeing that, you know, very often that these companies, they need attorneys that have licenses and they get practice and go jurisdiction. And that's very, very not many people do it either because they think it's too difficult or because it is expensive. It's true that it's expressive, but video doesn't matter. It's necessary. And I think we should be pushing for more young lawyers to to go ahead and do that. Fantastic. And you've been in the the same corporation for for a couple of years now. And I'd love to hear a little bit about, you know, what a typical day looks like for you and also what are some of the skills that you rely the most on that role? Sure. Yes, I, I work with very closely with the corporation in Southern California, with law firm in Southern California. And I guess the short answer to you question is that, I mean, there are no two days to go. Be safe. You know, the, the work is very volatile in a way and it changes a lot of what I do varies without poor departments. I oversee 4 departments. We have about 18 people working there at this point. And so a lot of what I do is management, management of all the workload, the cases that we do for our clients and also the people that work on those. So I have, you know, my official title, I guess would be senior case manager. And that involves, like I said, both working the cases themselves and working with the people to, you know, help them warm, they're OK. So I supervise all those big team team members and I make sure the cases ward. I don't help people strategize how to move ahead and work their own cases. And you know, I, I, I review the work. I reviewed the writings, the pleadings. They're they're bleeds. You know, you see that with the clients I meet with clients. But again, you know, like, no, today's look the same. Some days I working mostly on on bleeding so breathings they need to go out motions or the light or some other days I'm just you know strategizing or didn't know with clients and planning ahead the next six months 12 months robbery since right. I guess the skills I rely on most are probably, like I said, management. There's a lot of leadership here. Part of my job is to lead these people that often are are young or younger than me and they are new in in working this sort of cases. Sometimes they need some guidance, some pointers on how to do that, you know, and I learned that you cannot do everything yourself. And I try to do that. And that's often a recipe for disaster. You know, you have to delegate and you have to put them in a position where they can do it. You know, it's not about or want to do as much as they can. I want to be the greatest there. You know, it's about, you know, in this and sharing the workload so that we can be efficient and get things out as soon as possible on the best way possible. So you need to sort of empower your teammates and set some expectations, clear expectations and just make the decisions on how to get there, how to go about Gmail, whatever bowl the client has set out to achieve. So I think I actually love this job and I love the role that I have because it's sort of forced me to grow beyond just being a lawyer case lawyer, which there's nothing wrong to it, But you know, sometimes lawyers fail to understand that there's more to being a lawyer than just working the kids, right. This is a lot of management and strategizing and, and helping you, you know, stay a lot, right? There's a lot of that as well. So I, you know, I think that job has to be really taking me to a position where I can develop these skills that are not necessarily so common out there. So I'm very happy to have had that opportunity. That's amazing. If I may ask you about the, the cross-border practice, you know, you mentioned first that sometimes corporations are not as local as they seem and, and all of that. And how do you balance, you know, these independent projects that you have with your firm work? And also, if you don't mind me asking, what are some of the areas that you find yourself working more and more frequently? Yeah. So I guess that's a fair point because you know, balance is why key in, in in when you're working for corporation and at the same time have your own independent practice. It takes a lot of discipline. It takes a lot of clarity, setting clear boundaries and expectations for every client that they know that well, you're not the only client then you have a lot on your hands and you need to prioritize and strategize as well as the primary mostly focus on the firms work. But in my independence practice, I take on projects that sort of align directly with these cross-border practice that I'm building. And obviously they do not conflict with firm because the firm that's mostly local work. So when I do my independence practice, most often the class done to me for business formation in the US or for contracts between jurisdictions, compliance also recommend to see out there. So it's mostly those, those seasons of chemigation and tax considerations come into play as well. Obviously, I, I guess, and the root of all of this, it's compliance, right? So they, they want to set up, you know, corporation over there in the US and they want to do business in the US or they want to invest in other US properties and they want to do different sort of transactions. And for that, they need some sort of corporate entity structure. And they also need to understand what are my tax obligations? Where do I pay taxes? Do I pay taxes in both jurisdictions? How much, you know, and their treaties involved. And obviously sometimes they want to send people to the US through your business and there's immigration or management and executives, right? So those are kind of the hot topics, I guess they wanna drop their contracts to make sure that they're not, you know, in a side squad in the event of a dispute or they're gonna do arbitration or are they gonna do submit themselves to jurisdiction in the US? Those are, I think the hot topics, business formation clerks and mostly compliance with immigration and tax consider issues. But, you know, I tried to give my client some Peace of Mind. You know, when you're dealing with two different countries and their loss, they can be very different or have they say that most of the Western world is very similar. You know, the procedures may change, certainly they do even the laws change quite a bit. But culturally, you know, they're, they're very similar and and there will be some similarities. So I often tell that to my clients to make them feel like this shouldn't be so overwhelming. You know, there will be some overlap and at the other day just wanted the business and people want to do business with you. This shouldn't be rocket science, right? And you know, my my job is mostly to guide them to anticipate their Browns and try to make the process as smooth as possible. That's outstanding. So I also wanted to ask, I noticed that on LinkedIn, you run a newsletter and published some articles on crossbar barter law and how it should go about it. And I was curious to know, how did you decide to share some of your insights online and how has writing that also helped you with your career and also, you know, shaped your connections and all of that? You're right, I guess at first I started publishing because I sort of wanted to clarify my own thoughts that, you know, almost as if I was willing to like my old journal. Like, you know, I had some following in Leptin and just share some insights and lessons that are learned Again, because I felt a lot of people were contacting me directly because they seeing that I have not just school in the US and taking the bar exam that felt too many people waiting, intriguing, very attractive. And so I thought, well, I, I get it, you know, start publishing maybe once a week or once every two weeks and start explaining this to some people and show them, hey, it's not impossible. You don't have to be millionaire and certainly not and you know, you could do it at a reasonable budget at and expand your practice and getting licensed in multiple jurisdictions. It just takes a lot of resilience and a lot of hard work, but you know, you can pay off. So I started publishing mostly for those reasons and then I continued publishing also to show that these things that people talk about compliance between jurisdictions or contracts or incorporating a different country, again, it's not rocket science. You know, many people should be doing it, not just those few who took a leap of faith. So I started polishing to sort of spread the word and trying to encourage people to do it. And you know, this newsletter to be resonating with a lot of people, just not just lawyers, but also like business people on students. They they'll be in contact with me and they'll be asking questions prior and we'll be having calls and obviously, you know, very DC actually, but you know, I always try to point out to have balls and, and to discuss their questions and try to help them right now. So I keep on publishing this newsletter. He goes out every week, you know, like store has the demonic platform to share some practical advice, reflections on Myles and personal experience about working across borders. And I hope that, you know, if I keep polishing, you'll open doors for other people that you'll see that this is possible. And, you know, people can feel free to reach out because, you know, if they feel they know me through my writing, well, then they're invited to talk to me and, and ask whatever questions they have. And to the extent that I can, I'll help them out. And they said I'm getting a lot out of it. I'm, you know, I'm certainly enjoying right now. I always thought since I was a very little kid, used to write little novels of books, but then obviously now I'm writing about legal stuff, right? That's what I'm doing. But and not just the personal satisfaction of writing that I do enjoy quite a bit, but also people see me out there and they are inviting me to conferences. They're panels and would you guess that even a podcast? So yeah, I'm, I'm very happy being, well, publishing and I'll be doing that hopefully consistently over the next couple years. Fantastic. And if I may ask you before we go forward to another subject, can you tell our listeners of how they could find your newsletter and how they could subscribe to it in case you're interested? Yes. So my newsletter is called cross-border Insights. It's under my LinkedIn profile, so people search my name. They'll you'll probably pop out first thing on my profile and you can also search by name is Cross-border Insights. Fantastic Thomas is where it gets you the end of this episode. I also wanted to ask you something that I've been asking every every guest that comes to the podcast and that is what kind of advice would you give to lost students or young lawyers or just, you know, starting out in the field now, but also should those who are considering studying or practicing law abroad? Yeah. So, well, there's generally a lot of advice that I can give. I, I keep receiving advice, I'm sure I'm going to keep receiving advice myself for the next 30-40, fifty years, but as far as what I can. Call them right now. I think my 2 main pieces of advice would eat first, invest in yourself, study, devote time to studying languages. If you wanna do a cross-border practices language, you know each essential you gotta have a cross-border practice If you don't speak good English. Now he doesn't have to be perfect you you don't have to be a native speaker, but good enough to have a conversation like good enough so that people feel comfortable talking to you. So if it's in the US or Canada, then in English has to be you know your sexual language. Now English is probably the business language out there in the world, even if you're going to Asia or Europe. So certainly I would tell them to study English, but they besides Portuguese or French or Mandarin, I mean, whatever language they learn, you'll certainly tell them you'll multiply their opportunities. And the second one and probably the most important one if anything is don't be afraid to stand up out of your call from soul. Yes, it's not easy to study law abroad. It's not set up across border practice, but it based off it'll pay off in kind. You need to study, you need to work. If you have a chance to get out and then spend a semester abroad or Jacob Masters degree abroad or if you can take your job and spend a few months, even a couple of years abroad, then those things are going to help you. It's going to open your mind to new opportunities, new people, to new ways of life, and it's certainly going to give you those new elements that you need. You're going to be working with clients who do business through multiple jurisdictions. You cannot be stuck with your own mindset of your local culture and your local laws. Things are very different when you cross borders. So certainly, you know, jiggly buffet step outside of your comfort zone. Don't be afraid. Just you know, how about it You're gonna land on your feet if you plan ahead, if you're organized, you're gonna land on your feet and things are gonna workout. Well, generally those two. I guess I could also mention if you wanna be a lawyer, most of it involves networking. Now, it's certainly not the only thing that some people have the misconception that, oh, I'm going to network and that's gonna do it for me, that that's not really quite like that, but it certainly helps. So try to build networks. Rarely join associations. You can join your local journeys association or if you do business in the US, you can join the American virus situation. You can go to conference, you can connect without lawyers. Don't be afraid of just texting them, you know, emailing them say, hey, I just saw you on this conference or I just saw your your LinkedIn profile. I just wanted that. I want to talk. I want to pick your brain. Why? Why not? I mean made their trees in well, they'll just say no. So what I mean, what's the harm in doing that, right? So I think those are some of the insights that will share with. Absolutely. Thank you so much for those. To wrap up today's episode, I also wanted to ask you where do you see your practice heading in the next few years? And also also you see that there's some areas of cross-border work that you think will grow in importance as well as we. Move forward well, I cannot see myself any in two big directions. I guess one of them is I want to continue growing my practice, my independent practice and really become like, we go to lawyer from this for these companies that need to do business abroad and they need to set up a corporate entity or get advice on compliance and tax issues. So I really want to do that, especially between Argentina and the US, which is where I come from, where I legally trained and where I feel most comfortable, surely would be open minded to expanding that as well. And you know, I want to publish more. I wanna connect with clients and not just clients in Argentina, US, wherever they might be and they may need help with those jurisdictions. And I guess the others, I would like to focus on areas that I think are growing very rapidly and that goes kind of your second washroom. I mean, I'm not falling into the cliche of saying technology and AI, but you know, it is that those areas are growing quite fast and you know, in a way dangerously fast because people are not even able to keep up with all the changes that are out there. So I wanna try to go into that analogy, compliance and try to stay ahead of the game and be able to help my clients navigate those issues as well. There, there again, they're growing so fast, not just for lawyers, but, or even the people who work on those fields, even the people in AI or, or the tax standups, they, they are, are having a hard time catching up. So if I can help them, then I'll certainly do that. And I guess that's also where I see myself going. Amazing. Well, once again, thank you so much for taking time to come on the podcast and share some of your insights. Much, much appreciated and wishing you all the best in your career and looking forward to seeing what comes up next. Well, thank you and and thank you for having these podcasts. I've been listening to it for, you know, a few months now and I was found it very intriguing and, you know, very instructive. Thank you for, you know, for everyone who who shows up at this show and and contributes, I think their their advice can be very helpful to some people who work. And it started. Thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure. I hope to be in touch in the future. Absolutely. Well, thank you all for tuning in and we'll see you on the next one.