Education Law with Alex Munoz

Hello everybody. Welcome to another episode of Studying Law Around the World. Today I get to speak with Alex Muñoz, who has an incredible experience in a very interesting area of law. He works with education law. And to start us off today, Alex, thanks again for joining us. Can you tell us a little bit about your background and how you became involved in education law? Yeah, thank you, Claudio. I'm really honored. Thank you for inviting me to be on your podcast. I've listened to a few of the episodes, just great information that you're sharing with the whole legal community, and I really appreciate the fact that you asked me to join you today. So I am the oldest son of immigrant parents that came from Colombia in the early 1970s. I'm proud to say that I was the first in my family to graduate from university here in Canada. I grew up in the East End of Toronto in Scarborough area. I started my career in a small firm in Toronto. You know, I have to say that I was incredibly fortunate to Landed a firm that valued me and provided lots of room for mentorship and professional growth. You know, I didn't know at the time that when I went for the job interview that I'd end up articling and practicing law for, with one of the pioneers of education law here in Ontario, a gentleman by the name of Bill Markle. Actually, if you don't mind, Claudio, I'd like to tell like a really quick story about Bill. Please, please do go right ahead. Thank you. I consider him to be, you know, one of the true gentlemen barristers in our profession. To make a long story short, on my first day of articling was not spent at the office. Bill actually asked me to meet him at a small town outside of Toronto because he was finishing up a Superior Court of Justice judge-alone trial. And, you know, aside from everything else that happened today, one thing that I'll never forget is one of the submissions that was made by the assistant Crown attorney to the court in, you know, to bolster the Crown's case. And this was a criminal case. And of course the Crown has the onus of Proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the accused committed the offense, and the the crown on trying to make his points that the witnesses were credible because they had withstood cross-examination. Quote from one of the best lawyers in the province. End quote. And just I just remember, and and that I'll never forget that moment because it just made me feel you know incredibly proud that I'd be learning and observing on how to be a lawyer from from one of the best in the profession. So. You know, I practiced law with Bill and others at the firm for the first 11 years of my career. I represented teachers in criminal and civil cases, as well as before their professional body, the College of Teachers, on many, many cases across that time. And then in 2018, I made a move and joined the Legal Services Department at the Toronto District School Board. I moved in-house. I worked my way up to Associate General Counsel position at the largest school board in Canada, one of the largest in North America. I love my time over there at TDSB. I worked closely with school administrators and leaders throughout the system. I learned so much from all the incredible people that are dedicated to public education at TDSB. And quite frankly, from, from others across the system, because I did, you know, had a lot of contact with others in different school boards as well. And, you know, they're Their demonstrated passion for public education was bar none. I worked with all the different departments at the board all the way up to the director's office. And so that was, you know, an incredible experience in learning and advising the people with such passion for working with, you know, not only young people, not only young students, but also, you know, TDSB has— 100,000 adult learners. So it's quite incredible. And after 7, 7+ years at the Toronto District School Board, I decided it was a change. I decided it was time for a change. And I joined one of Canada's leading employment and labor firms that represents the employers, management side, Sherrod Coos LLP. You know, quite frankly, I've been here for a short time. Everybody here is incredible. The firm has a robust practice representing schools, school boards, universities in a wide range of areas, including employment law, labor law, human rights investigations, health and safety, privacy, workplace safety and insurance. And so, you know, now that I've joined and I've joined Sherri Coos, I'm, you know, brought now my expertise in education law to the firm and looking to build up that practice. And so I'm quite, quite excited for the future. Amazing. That's amazing. Thank you so much for sharing that story. That's so meaningful. I'm sure, you know, all of us going through this process are just, you know, a little extra happy to know that those that are teaching us are reputable people and it's not something that you would see as a straight. So I'm so glad you shared that. That's so interesting. And since you mentioned education law and how your practice evolved and all of that in your current practice today. Can you tell me a little more of what actually is education law? Yeah, I know it's a great question, and trust me, I've had the question posed quite a few times throughout my career. You know, it's kind of a loaded question, and what I mean by that is that education law encompasses many different disciplines, including labor and employment law, public law, administrative law, criminal law, corporate commercial, family law, children's rights, human rights law, privacy It's just real, you know, real estate law. It's— there's just so many different practices that— not that you need to be an expert in all those practices, but quite frankly, there's just all of the issues, legal issues that come up at school boards, universities, which, you know, as an education lawyer, you need to be well-versed in terms of the different legislation, in terms of the leading case law. There's just so much. It really is. And, you know, when we're talking about you know, all the legal matters relating to education, you're talking about not just, of course, the rights and the obligations of the school board, but you're also talking about the rights of students, teachers, administrators. So there's just a multitude of issues that come up almost on a daily basis. And in terms of legislation, the main piece of legislation that governs, you know, the public education system, kindergarten to grade 12 in Ontario is the Education Act. And I actually am the editor of the annotated Ontario Education Act. I've been the editor since now 2013, I believe. So, you know, 13 years and going. When I look at the Act, the first thing I think about is, you know, Section 0.1, sub 1 of the Education Act. which states that, quote, a strong public education system is the foundation of a prosperous, caring, and civil society, end quote. And the reason I bring that up is, again, you know, when talking about education, we really, really got to think about who is it meant for? And what I mean by that is we're talking about over 2 million students, um, about, uh, just under 4,000 elementary schools and, uh, If I remember correctly, about 883 secondary schools across the province, like in terms of public education, because there also is, you know, private education as well. That's, that's, that's separate. But it is still something that, that I also practice in terms of representing administrators in private education and private systems. And it's just, you know, as legal counsel to a school board, you receive, as I mentioned earlier, all kinds of inquiries. From, uh, from senior staff, including, you know, the director, associate directors, superintendents. You also deal with different, um, you know, senior managers in the different departments, such as professional support services or facility services. And you also deal directly with the school leaders. And then what I mean by that is the principals and the vice principals on almost a daily basis. There were, there were times, Claudio, that I would receive, uh, you know, 15 or more general advice matters that would come in. Um, you know, you know, when, when things were very, very busy at the school board and all kinds of legal issues relating to school registrations, admissions, guardianship issues, you know, family law and custodial, or rather now it's referred to as the decision-making responsibility issues with respect to the Children's Law Reform Act, the Ontario Student Records Guidelines, parental management issues, withdrawal from parental consent. There's just so much. to consider when practicing in education law. That's amazing. That's amazing because I'm sure it's easy to be simplistic when you're just thinking about what is this area of law, what's that area of law, but I can only imagine how many different areas really end up becoming a part of it all the way from administrative law to privacy. And well, you said, well, you named, well, quite a few of those, so. That's quite incredible. And you mentioned a few different areas that you got the chance to work on, and then now you work at a firm that also does other areas, even though you lead the education practice. So if I may ask you, how is education law then different from other areas that you've been involved in before? You know, Claudio, that's a great question and it's not much different. Um, and what I, what I mean by that is that education law is client-centered. I've always said to advocate effectively and build trust and credibility with your clients, I mean, including, you know, managing inside education law clients, an education lawyer has to know and understand their world. The principals and the vice principals, the school leaders that are on the front line that have to deal with not only the students and staff at their schools, but also the community, also other advocates. It's just incredible the amount of, you know, amount of work that they do. And so when they're coming to you and they're asking for advice, yes, some of it is non-legal. But really when they're coming to you is because there is an issue, there is a legal issue, and you need to know in terms of what they're dealing with and how to provide the best advice to those clients. I've also, you know, because of my criminal law background, I was, you know, I did a lot of work with the Caring and Safe Schools staff there at TDSB, including centrally assigned principals, the executive superintendent, and and other school administrators. And, you know, that had to do with issues concerning student discipline, privacy obligations regarding the Youth Criminal Justice Act, just a multitude of issues that they have to deal with. And, and really, again, as I said before, you have to know their world in terms of what they're dealing with in order to provide the best advice possible. Amazing. It's so, it's so interesting how the practice of law really does look alike in some ways, even, even in spanning through different areas. So Thank you for sharing that. And going on, pursuing this topic, considering what you've mentioned previously about all the regulations that regulate education and in all of this context, I also wonder what are some of the most pressing legal issues that affect schools? No, that's a great question again, Claudio. Just last week, there was a report released by the Ontario Human Rights Commission. It's a report that addressed anti-Black racism in schools. And it's not just, again, elementary schools, secondary schools, but it really was a look into systemic anti-Black racism and calling on the government, calling on the school boards, the unions and universities to, you know, take a greater action in dealing with anti-Black racism. I believe that report had, I believe it was 29 recommendations and it had timelines for the implementation in terms of dismantling anti-Black racism. So, and it's not just anti-Black racism, but just, you know, anti-oppression issues and issues with respect to other ethnicities. It's again, under the Human Rights Code, all students, um, including, including Black students and young persons are entitled to an education system that does not discriminate. And so we all are aware of that and We all have to do better, quite frankly, in terms of addressing those issues. And that was a report that, you know, the hope is that a lot of the recommendations will be implemented. And so that's one example. You know, another, the rising toll of harassment and assault of educators. Actually, my colleague Angela Powell and I are going to be presenting at a conference at the Ontario Public School Boards Association their Labor Relations and Human Resources Symposium. And this is the actual topic that we're going to be discussing in terms of the fact that incidents of assault and harassment of educators has been growing at an alarming rate. And that, you know, quite frankly, this troubling trend has taken a toll on the mental health and workplace satisfaction of educators. You know, not just teachers, but we're also talking about early childhood educators, educational assistants, Quite frankly, it's an epidemic that needs to be addressed. And we are going to do our best to be able to provide best practices and discuss this issue, hopefully being able to have the school board better understand their legal obligations to support staff safety and mental well-being. And another major issue, if I can, and I'll just, you know, briefly touch about this. Next week, I'm actually attending a conference in Banff. It's a conference that's put on by the, it's called CAPSLE, the Canadian Association for the Practical Study of Law and Education. They're Canada's education law association. And I'm super looking forward to meeting with colleagues across the country and some great discussion and topics and the speakers that are going to be presenting. I'm also going to be, you know, honored to be one of the presenters there with another one of my colleagues, Jim Molos, here at Sherrod Coos, and we're going to be discussing the reasonable expectation of privacy in the school board context. So again, issues with respect to privacy are issues that school board personnel have to deal with almost on a daily basis. So I'm really looking forward to that as well. That's fantastic. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to share with us both about your area of practice, about how education law works, and also thank you for mentioning about this conference you'll be participating. And to wrap up today's episode, If I were to ask you, what piece of advice would you give to, you know, a law student, somebody who's just joining the workforce now, and that, you know, is, is really thinking about how can I make the most out of my career, out of the profession? What would you tell them? Quite frankly, the best piece of advice that I could give is to seek out mentors who guide you, who share their experience, who provide valuable insights into the practice of law. I appreciate that not everyone will have the same experience that I had as an art student and a young lawyer. Um, however, there are others. I know that there's a lot of others that would be happy to share their knowledge with the, uh, with the next generation, with the, uh, with the young lawyers, our students. And, and I have to say in turn, when, when you become a more seasoned lawyer, you should be willing to share your wisdom with the younger lawyers making their way up the noble profession. So that's the, that's the advice that I would provide. That's very, very interesting. And I hope you all took some notes and Thank you all so much for taking the time to listen to today's podcast. And please check it out on the link below, the information about Alex's bio, the website for his firm, and we'll see you all in the next