Deals, Discipline, and Direction with Peter Saad

Welcome to studying law Around the world. I'm Claudio Claus. In each episode, I talk with lawyers, law students, and professors from different parts of the world to talk about legal education, careers, and what the profession looks like in real life. We talk about the hard parts, the surprises and the decisions. That shaped their paths. Whether you're planning to study abroad, thinking about working in another legal system, or just curious about how law works around the world, this podcast is for you. This episode of Studying War Around the World is proudly sponsored by ITL Prep from Emond Exam Prep, the comprehensive resource designed specifically for internationally trained lawyers preparing for DMCA exams. We understand that the NCA accreditation journey can feel overwhelming. You can face many obstacles getting to success, courses that cost too much, offer too little, or leave you more confused than when you started. 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Visit imams.chtodaythatsemod.ca and use promo code ITL 50 to claim your 50% discount on NCA exam preparation courses. Today I have the opportunity to speak with Peter said He has an incredible story starting in New York and nowadays being the managing partner of Loopster Nixon. Thank you so much for taking the time to being with me here in the podcast today, Peter, I appreciate your time. Claudio, it's an absolute pleasure to be a part of this. I remember when you emailed me to reach out for the 75 people for the 75 alumni journey, and it was just extraordinary to meet you then. And since then, just following you on LinkedIn and seeing what you're doing you. You're impacting people in more ways than you. You know it. And we're fortunate to have leaders like you, and I'm fortunate to have met you and be a part of the journey we're on together. I really appreciate you, you saying that and well, I appreciate you being so generous as well to be part of the 75 lawyers project. For maybe those who haven't heard much about it in, in previous podcasts, we've, we've talked about it briefly, but UFT law was turning 75. And as a personal go, I thought, what could I do beyond attending the, the events to celebrate the law school? And then I came up with this idea. I saw few friends in the US who had a go of meeting 100 lawyers before they graduated. And I thought, well, how exciting it would be for me to meet, you know, 75 alumni. And then it was the 75th year. So it just, it was just very nice. And I got to meet a lot of very generous people like you, Peter. So thank you for being a part of that. I'd like to ask you then if you could pre please introduce yourself to our listeners and tell us a little bit about, you know, what you do these days. So what I do these days is I cause a lot of chaos. But you know, my journeys vary. I'm very fortunate. I was new to law. I didn't come from a history of family members in the practice of law. If anything, my parents would have expected me to be a doctor or an engineer or some other. And law wasn't one of those professions. And I was fortunate enough to to go through the journey. I started in Business School and ended my academic journey at UFT. While I was at UFT, they said OCI for New York jobs, you should consider applied. I was fortunate enough to get a position of Turbine and Sterling and spent 4 1/2 years working at Sherman and Sterling and from there I wasn't called to the bar in Ontario. So I I looked around, I said OK, I don't really know anyone in Ontario. I don't have Canadian credentials at that point. So I decided to write the bar and build my own practice from that journey. It was interesting to really start from Ground Zero again. It was a full reset and the journey was exciting. I got to work with a lot of great people and then my practice reached a point where I needed that support and that the back end support to help take my practice to the next level. So I joined Loops for Nixon in 2021 and it's just been an exciting journey to be a part of a great team there. I was fortunate enough to become managing partner in 20 in February of 2025, so earlier this year. That's kind of what keeps me busy these days is the balance between practicing law, being around my kids and my wife as much as I can be. And if I'm not in the office or at Brett's for a coffee across the office, you'll hear basketballs bouncing in the background because I'm a basketball practice with one of the kids. And that's the journey I'm on. And I'm fortunate to be able to share my story with you. Amazing. Thank you for for sharing that. Just start off and since you mentioned New York, I remember you recently posted a little bit about that and, and that story of starting your career during the 2008 financial crisis in maybe what we could call part of the heart of it as well. And I'd love to hear a little more on that. You know, looking back, what did that experience teach you? I'm sure there was a lot of, you know, questions about resilience, about risk, and maybe even what should guide you from that. It was extraordinary because in September of 2008, my wife and I got married and we were on our honeymoon and you turned on the news and Bear Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers were closing their door. And in that moment, you actually don't know what that means. And you don't know whether you have their job anymore. You don't know the world. It is essentially exploding as you know it. And I recall going to New York, we arrived on the Friday, October the 3rd, 2008, got to our apartment, literally had an air mattress in the suitcase because nothing had arrived. And you're sitting around in a foreign city where you know nobody. And I wrote on, I wrote on LinkedIn, I said, and no one knows you've arrived. The city could you know, it's too big. And you show up on the first day. Law firms were trying to be very brave during that time, pretending like everything is normal, but nothing was normal. We were entering the US elections at that time. And it was it was Barack Obama's campaign, I believe it was against John McCain or Mitt Romney, I don't remember which one. And it was so unique because the transition government usually like George Bush was finishing his term. But it was amazing because the government needed to make such significant decisions, which is atypical at the conclusion of a term that Barack Obama's transition government was working so closely because they were they needed to create fiscal policy. Claudio, I share this because, you know, sometimes we go through it in different journeys and you see the cycle of economies and you know, we're going through it a little bit right now where there's some uncertainties. You have people looking around for articling positions. You have different students. And I said to them, you know, these are all blips in the longer journey that we're on. But the capital markets literally froze. Nothing happened. Imagine that you're at a major law firm, global player, you're looking around and there's zero activity, capital frozen away that it never did. So you sit around and it got to the point where we would all pretend we're busy because, you know, you're, you don't want to be the person leaving early, especially in a down market. And at one point in time, the partners walked around said, guys, we know nothing's going on right now, Just don't pretend. Just go. And if something comes up, just be reachable. And it was, it was actually really helpful sort of acknowledgement from them because it took a lot of pressure off. And like all good things, the slow times didn't last for long. And the work came back and it was a flurry because the interest rates that the government adopted through, you know, through the Federal Reserve and stuff brought the rates all the way down. So companies that had debt for 5 percent, 6% were like, OK, well, it's cheaper for me to pay the penalty and take new money at 0% or 2%. So they actually were just playing the market. And the investment grade market exploded. And partners were walking around saying, hey, what's your name? Have you done a deal? Do you know what a comfort letter is? And you're like, hi, I'm Peter. I know nothing. But, you know, during that journey, you're thinking your world is ending and you look back. And these were the most formative years of my career. And I'm so fortunate to have worked with such amazing people. And I'm also so fortunate that I had to learn by fire. You learned by doing, and it was out of necessity. So it was interesting to see it. And you know, you're going to go through these vehicles in your career and there's always these very significant ones. I would say 2005 is one in the Canadian marketplace that we've all kind of said, OK, what's going on? You have the threats of tariffs. You have, you know, the investment market on the real estate side. So there are different sort of wins that are happening. And so in a few years, you look back and you've weathered the storm and you know, it's don't get too high or too low. Really think about a long career. That's fantastic. I, I really like the wisdom of people who have gone through these times because as we were navigating them as professionals for the first one, it doesn't feel as comfortable. It doesn't feel like it's a time to learn lessons. It really feels like a time of fear. And we are recording this just before the Thanksgiving weekend. So it's, it's an interesting point that that comes to mind as you say that. But I think it's especially comforting to know that those are cycles that that have to happen and making the most of it is the the best we can. Do and I think Claudio is interesting because recently I, you know, you sit with your team and you say to them, Hey, you know, this is your first down market that you're experiencing And and to be honest with you, it almost feels like it's the first for me too, right? Like I didn't have a good start to my career. I had a dead start. So I didn't really have a reference point to realize how bad it was in 08. But what you actually also look is you typically, you know, every seven to 10 years you have a cycle. But if you look at the economy from O 8 to 25, we almost ridged a few of them. We skipped them a little bit. So a lot of people are looking around and you know, people have been practicing for 3-4 or five years are also looking and saying, Hey, what's going on? It's so slow, What's different? What's and it's like, hey, guys, it's OK, we're all in this. We will weather this. But a lot of people, it's not just articling students and summer students in first years, you know, mid level associates haven't seen a down market, right? So we've skipped a few because just the way the fiscal policies have been with the low interest rates and even we've had a few sort of blips along the way, but they've been so short lived like COVID, when COVID first happened, the markets went down a little bit, but then they rebounded at a rate no firm could have ever expected. So it just an interesting journey. And I think it's you really have to think about this from a broader career perspective. And even if you hit some bumps along the road, they're all, you know, you'll actually forget that when you look back. I remember October 6th because that literally was the first day. And you show up and you're hoping and expecting and because you have grand views, you think you know what your career is going to look like. And it usually doesn't involve a global economic shutdown with two large financial institutions. Claudio, you're seeing pictures of people with banker boxes leaving the buildings. That's how I'm starting my career, right? Go, go, go watch these clips of the newscast. And you're like, this is really, you know, bankers boxes. It's not really like a pun. It really literally is the bankers box and they're walking out with their stuff. Not a beautiful scene, that's for sure. And then Peter, as someone who has had this experience working in the global farm, building your own firm, I'd love to hear a little bit about a little more about, you know, building your practice then into a Canadian full size firm after those experiences. You mentioned that the support is very interesting and and that's one of the things that made you go into it, but I'd love to hear a little more about that experience. So I think at the end of the day, when you, when you evaluate what do I want out of my career, What am I looking for? What is important really, I think you look at this and, and you say to yourself, the law is the actual technical aspect of the law. Many of us can figure out, someone can do the research. A lot of people can execute with varying degrees. I get it. But it's the soft skills. It's, are you an effective communicator? Are you able to guide the client? Are you able to become the trusted advisor? What role do you play in the decision, in the decision making process for this client? And is the client seeing you as someone who's adding value or pushing paper? That's up to you as a lawyer. And those are the trades that you really fostered. Because really at the end of the day, Claudio, the, the technical skill isn't where relationships often break down. It's the communication, it's the missing deadlines. It's it's a lot of things you can actually control, but may always find that the number one thing was when you say yes to a client, you owe them your absolute best execution. You chose to take on that file. They are owed that absolute commitment to execution, executional excellence. Those are the hallmarks that you know you have to embrace. And I always say that in the practice, what ends up happening is you get comfortable not knowing what you don't know. You get really comfortable and people sometimes are scared to say, I don't know, but clients value thee. That's a great question. I don't know the answer. Leave it with me. Let me look into it is much better than you know, making it up and being absolutely wrong going from my own really I focused on saying I wanna execute with the excellence I was trained and I put it in my head to say I want to bring Wall Street execution to Main Street. That's that was the guiding principle at Sherman and Sterling. You were trained that clients expect good work from us clients expect responsiveness. Clients expect professionalism. Hold yourself to a standard, you know, and that was really the the overarching theme that guided my execution. And from there I was able to get to a point where it made sense for me to join others like minded professionals. And when I joined Leapster Nixon, it was a hungry group of lawyers who care about clients who really are adding value. And I'll tell you, Claudio, the difference between, you know, those who like the fakers and makers is execution. It's rarely the intellectual. You get the right answer, I get the wrong answer. People are usually around the target. Amazing. Well, I, I also notice here as I was researching, preparing for this podcast, that one of your areas of specialty was corporate healthcare. And I'd love to hear a little more about how did you find that focus? How did that area become really one of interest to you, especially as I think it's a personal thing. But also a lot of my colleagues, we've, we've struggled a little bit of, of back and forth and giving some thought and trying to, to give a try to different areas to see really what you're interested in, what subjects really pick your mind or challenging and all of that. How did you decide or or how did that happen that you became a specialist in this? Area. I don't think I started my career thinking this is what I would be doing. I started my career wanting to be a transactional lawyer. Truth be told, I didn't want to be a securities lawyer. But when you get hired back from at Sherman and Sterling, there's 60 or 70 of us coming back. You've rank and everyone wanted. So I didn't get got securities. And when I pivoted back to Toronto and I was doing my own work. Sometimes what ends up happening is the industry chooses you. You don't choose the industry, but it's also because you start becoming very comfortable and well versed within the industry. You know the you know, I know the answer. I know who to call at which college. I know what needs to get done very quickly. We're fortunate in the Canadian legal market space that people aren't hyper specializing, so you can be more well-rounded, I think. But also, Claudio, it's so important to not dabble in areas. If you're not an employment lawyer, don't touch it. The laws changing too fast. If you're not an immigration law lawyer, let it go, hand it off. Don't touch wills and estates. If you're not constantly why these areas of law end up changing really fast. And if you're not up to date, you're going to give wrong advice. But healthcare, to be honest, I saw a bridge between working with professionals and working with consolidation. There's a lot of consolidators in healthcare. There's, you know, whether you see the dental DSO's or you know, other verticals and you're, you're trying to marry business with patient care or patient experience and, and more often than not, you just develop that expertise and it just becomes, it almost takes care of itself. Like you, you find yourself in the traffic because you know, the industry, you think about some of the other pockets of industries that have crept up. You know, you've seen a wave of cryptocurrency lawyers. You've seen at one point the cannabis wave of, of people who became, if someone called me, I wouldn't know the answer If I mean, could I figure it out? Maybe I but that wasn't the area that I was comfortable. But I I would say, Claudio that the industry. Specialization is secondary to the area of practice focus. I'm a transactional lawyer first and foremost. I can execute on many different verticals. I can execute on different bank financing transactions. But when it comes to that area of specialty, I immediately know how to deal with the regulated profession. You know, whether it's veterinary optometry, diagnostic imaging. Why? Because it follows a similar sort of system. You have to figure out the regulator, you go to them for a change of ownership. You, you follow the but you have to know first and foremost that area of law because the industry specific things are almost, I jokingly say they're almost the closing conditions. You have to get the deal first before you worry about the industry. I'll also say that what has actually been probably the most instrumental, less so the Healthcare is trying to learn the business that we're transacting. Sometimes lawyers just separate the business from the transaction. And being a securities lawyer really helped for one reason. We were industry agnostic. We were always mostly doing underwriter work. So we're off for the banks and you would go from healthcare to coal to this to that. You're jumping from industry to industry. Well, how do you learn an industry? Go read the risk factors. Go open a prospectus and read the risk factors. It's going to tell you what's keeping management up at at night, and it's also going to tell you the worst part and the worst news about the industry because it's sitting that's the way they play in sure. That's the way they play defence, right? The more they disclose. And that's kind of the I always, from my perspective, I always start with a client and say, what are the things that scare you about this deal? What are those risk factors we're solving? And then you work backwards to get to the document to get the document responsive as sort of the the tool to shield you from those risks. Amazing. So we, we've touched on execution, talked a little bit about how you started your career and now I'd love to hear a little more about your thought leadership as well. You've written quite a bit on integrity, character, leadership in business and I'd love to here a little bit more about how do you translate those personal values also in your current role as a managing partner to, I'm sure to some extent, you know, to be part of the firm culture, to be part of the client relationships. It's a great question. It's, it's a humbling question, but I'll, I'll be honest and say that I'm fortunate to have parents who taught me good values. It's foundational. And I think oftentimes if you always measure yourself by what the 10 year old you would think of present day you, that's the test. We all go through these points in our career. We succeed, we excel, we graduate and we think lawyers are supposed to act a certain way or we think whatever sort of that role. And I think those misconceptions unfortunately are 10 year olds wouldn't really sometimes like how we act. I approach my every encounter with everyone looking to learn from them. I don't care who or what role they are. I also think the the idea of treating people with respect will never cause you any issues. You will always be OK if you treat people well. That's what guides my my journey. I always say, you know, when people say how you write on LinkedIn, I say, honestly, I'm imperfect in so many ways. And this is my shared journey. Yeah, there are days I write. It's been a tough few days, but I get it. Not every day is a wind. And it's all about how do we sort of rise from that? I think people thrive from consistency. Be consistent in your dealings. Treat people with the respect you want to be treated with. If you really live by the golden rule, do unto others as you want others to do unto you. You won't have to think about anything twice. Culturally at Loopster Nixon, we we have great people. You know, I share this story jokingly, but it's it really happened. We had a, an inter starting and our finance teams, you know, I, I like to say hello to everybody I see. And I went to her and I was like, hey, what's your name? And she was gracious enough to share her name. And she's like, oh, So what do you do here? And I said, oh, I'm the janitor. She's like, oh, that's amazing. And today I saw her. We were having a celebration for somebody today. And I saw her. She's like, you're not the janitor. I was like, yeah, I could be. And I said, you know, I have so much respect for your reaction to me being the janitor because you were so positive and I loved it. So, you know, you try not to take things too seriously. You try to be empathetic. Everyone has a journey and everyone has a story. But I I'll tell you, Claudio, if you treat people with respect, it will never let you down. Fantastic. Well, I really appreciate you sharing that. It's always interesting and honestly, personally exciting to know that you're in a profession with people who have those thoughts. So it's, it's very nice to know that I'm joining a profession with that. And I know that lots of my peers feel the same way. So I really appreciate you, you bringing that up. And as far as questions here, I have two more to wrap up today's episodes. So I also saw that you have some experience in strategic marketing. If I understand you, you did an MBA and I'd, I'd love to hear a little bit about, you know, how that has helped you to, to have, I guess, like a business lens and, and how that you know, enhances your approach in your legal practice, in your negotiation, confirm management. I could tell that a lot of the, the points that we shared in this conversation before are not what you'd usually learning law school, but I'm sure that there's a mix of not only what you learned in your MBA as well, a lot of life lessons, right. So I'd love to hear what are your thoughts on? That I would tell you that I would encourage every young lawyer to find a business course to take, get comfortable around business, read offering memorandums or prospectuses, not not from a legal lens, just get familiar. I think what ends up happening, Claudio, is when you, you know, you know the if you know, you know, when a client calls a lawyer and the lawyer is well versed in business, actually, it, it builds that trust and rapport in a way they don't have to explain industry to you. They send you financial statements. You're looking saying, hey, we're paying this long term debt off, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Versus your own closing and you magically find 2.7 or $20 million of long term debt that no one contemplated. Right. And my MBA, like law school MBA and law school are very similar in that they are a gateway or they're a key, but they're not a destination on their own. You, you think back to law school and you go through everything. Law school doesn't teach you information, but it teaches you how to think. You don't realize it while you're in it, right, Because you get into the practice. And Claudia, you were telling me about your journey and, and the cool things you're doing today re orgs and minute books. And I don't remember what class you took that that talked about any of that stuff. No, no, no, right. But it taught you how to say, yeah, I got to look at the OCA and I understand where I need to be. And I get a corporation and I, you get the structural and the high level strategic marketing is strategic thinking, always trying to think big picture and a global level of what am I helping? How can I help my clients? How can I add value? You want to be a trusted advisor that they can't go to war without you in their corner. Amazing. To wrap up today's episode, why don't you ask you, and especially focusing on those young lawyers and law students who are listening in today, is there anything that you wish somebody had told you about building a meaningful and sustainable legal career? So I always say to people, you have two currencies in law. You either have your hours or your book. Don't let your career fly by building someone else's career. If someone isn't encouraging you to soar and ascend, then maybe they're not the right person you want to work with. There's a time and a place for you to be training and you continue to train. But you know in those down moments when you have some time, go find someone and have a coffee with. Build your network, plant seeds. Don't sit back and assume work as just going to come find you, find you. It doesn't. I think the more people are out there building their network and connecting. You and I were fortunate for LinkedIn. We connected through that and what an amazing journey. I said to you and I will say repeatedly, it is people like you who inspire people like me each and every day. You got out of your comfort zone and you did something extraordinary and through that you, you connected all these people together. Everyone is connected through Claudia. You plant seeds and you don't know when they come to fruition. I share with people this idea. There is a misnomer that business development means I go to coffee with someone or I take someone to lunch and tomorrow I get a file. No, it doesn't work that way. This is our career is really it's a journey, but don't say, OK, I'm going to work for five years heads down, then it's going to click. No, it's what are you doing today to plant seeds? You know, your colleagues were lawyers at other firms will have conflicts that need to be referred out. Are you in touch with them? Your, your, your colleagues who went to Business School or went to, I don't know, where are you in touch with them? People you went to high school with? And the the point of the conversation is to grow together and soar together. And as I'm sort of hitting midpoint in my career, I look around and see some of the people I went to elementary school with doing extraordinary things. And you're like, wow, that's just extraordinary. And you celebrate each other, but don't sit back own your career. Because if you're just going to do someone else's work forever, there comes a day where people are going to look and say, what value added are you bringing to the table? I don't want this to be a stressful thing because I'll tell you, we got to New York. They said go do business development and you think you're going to go to coffee with Claudio and tomorrow you're getting a deal from Name the Bank. No, it doesn't work that way. But you become a trusted member of the team that that banker knows. He's like, yeah, that's awesome. We're working with Sherman and Sterling Peters on the file. Well, in 710 years, when that person is senior banker and you're a senior lawyer, you grow. You grow. With your peers, amazing. Less so now. I really appreciate that. And I think it's a, it's a, it's an incredible reminder for us to continue on building those relationships. And I, I really like what you're saying as well that it doesn't come out of just a building a business or building a book. It really comes on how can I help out these other people that at once we're seated by me and we helped each other with homework and all of that. And how can we do the same now in, in the professional market? So it's really amazing. I appreciate you sharing those. Thank you. And I think we are fortunate to have thought leaders and people like you and the profession who work hard, do extraordinarily well, but also treat people well. And you, you know, you don't have to to be successful and you don't have to be a jerk. Just be you. Nothing else that I can say to finish this podcast. I just really thank you for your time and thank you all for tuning into today's episode.