The Bar Exam in Ontario with Piper Riley Thompson⁠

Thank you everybody for tuning in today. We're starting a new episode and a new whole season of the podcast now, Studying Law Around the World. And now we will be speaking about, in this season, about Canada and the legal profession in Canada and so many different details. And in today's episode, I'll be speaking with Piper Riley Thompson. She will be speaking on the bar exam in Canada. Specifically, we'll be talking about Ontario. And I'm so excited to have you here today. So thank you so much. We're thrilled to have you here with us today. And to start things off, could you share a little bit about your background? We'd love to learn more about who you are and how you got here. Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. This is really fun. I always love having conversations like this, and I really strongly believe in making information about the legal profession accessible. So yeah, as you said, I'm Piper. I currently live in Calgary, Alberta, but this is the 4th province I've lived in. in the past 10 years. I'm a legal career advisor and a former human rights lawyer, and I'm an entrepreneur. So I've really dedicated my career to breaking down taboos in the legal profession and really increasing inclusivity in the profession. So right now, in my full-time work, I work at the University of Calgary's Faculty of Law, and I work with JD and LLM students as the Assistant Director of the Career and Professional Development Office at the law school. And I love that there's the advising aspect, And there's the programming aspect. And I love supporting students as they navigate, you know, whatever steps they feel are best for them in their careers. And then I also, for the past almost 4 years, have run my business, Ontario Bar Exam Coach, which is a strategic coaching business that helps lawyer licensing candidates in Ontario effectively prepare for the bar exams. And then finally, for 3 and a half years, I ran a podcast with my good friend Erin called Off the Tracks Podcast. And it was all about talking about things in the legal profession that don't don't often get discussed. So talking about disability in law, talking about law school debt, career transitions, and all of these taboo subjects, as I've touched on. So those are some of the ways that I have used my legal education, but I never really felt that practicing law was right for me. So after a little while in practice, I thought, how can I build a career in this profession where I can use some of my best skills to help people, but without practicing law? And that's what I've done. Wow, that's incredible. Thank you so much for sharing, and I'm so excited for today's episode then. And kind of diving in right into the topic of our today's exam, uh, going in specifically into the Ontario Bar Exam, could you tell us a little bit about how it's structured and maybe what are some of the key components that people who are thinking about, you know, eventually getting licensed in Canada need to be on the lookout for? Absolutely. So, as it currently stands at the time of us recording this, there are 2 bar exams in Ontario, the Barrister Exam and the Solicitor Exam. So, both exams are in the same format. There's 160 multiple-choice questions per exam, and if you're writing in the standard amount of time, meaning you don't have any sort of accommodations from the Law Society, you will answer the 160 questions in 4.5 hours. Each bar exam tests you on professional responsibility, otherwise known as ethics, but that's just what it's called on the bar exam. So both exams test professional responsibility, but other than that, the exams test separate subjects. So the barrister exam tests civil litigation, criminal law, family law, and public law, which is like a mixture of administrative law, constitutional law, those types of concepts. And then the solicitor exam tests business law, estate planning, and real estate. And like I said, professional responsibility is on both exams. And when I think about the key components of preparing for these exams and on the day of the exam, it really comes down to, like, in my mind, sort of 3 pillars of preparation: your knowledge of the law, your ability to find the answers in the text because these are open-book exams, and your timing skills. So your ability to answer these 160 questions within the 4.5 hours. And so it works out to a funky number. So if you are going to answer all 160 questions by the time the clock strikes zero, you are going to answer each question in a minute and 41 seconds. So it's like a bit of a weird number, but that's how long you will spend approximately on each question to answer all the questions in time. So that's sort of the basis of the bar exam as it is now. Wow, that's incredible. Yeah, it's quite a, quite a tight schedule when you think about it. And I think you just mentioned it's an, it's an open book exam, right? Yeah. So when you, when you're helping people, you, you mentioned you've been doing this for quite a while now. Uh, what are maybe like some of the biggest challenges you've seen candidates facing when they're preparing for the bar exam or on test day, you know? And maybe if you have any recommendations right away for those who are You know, starting to think about preparing for it? For sure. So I think I'll speak like broadly, and then I can also narrow things in. So broadly, there's a large amount of study materials to prepare for and to read. So just like the quantity of preparation is a lot. Something I always say in a lighthearted way, but I mean it seriously, is studying for the bar exam is always going to take every single person longer than they think it is. So if you budget X amount of time, budget even more time. And so that's, that's the first piece. And then coming into timing, also timing skills. So not just in terms of timing, how much you're gonna get, how much time you're gonna give yourself to study, but timing skills of how are you gonna manage the, your output on the day of the exam. And this is something you can practice with practice questions. Some people really struggle with, you know, the time crunch of the exam and getting correct answers in that minute and 41 seconds per question. And to clarify, I just want to be really clear. There's not someone with a stopwatch beside you like making you change questions at 1 minute and 41 seconds on the exam, but it's just if you would like to answer every question on the day of the exam, that is how much time you can spend per question. Obviously, it's up to you to manage your own time on the day of the exam. And the other thing as well that I really think like broadly candidates often struggle with is balancing the stress of this process while also being a full person. So obviously, everybody, you know, has to take care of themselves as they're studying for the bar exams, and everybody has different circumstances. So some people are, you know, maybe students, or they've just finished being students when they're preparing for the bar exam. And by that I mean, like, sometimes people have finished, they finished their NCA, but maybe they're also doing another degree. But most people have likely just finished being a student. At the same time, some people are working full-time or part-time while studying for these exams, and some people are like, full-time caregivers, whether that's for like an elderly parent or they have kids themselves, whatever that might be. And those are like huge stresses to balance when you're studying for this exam. So those are like the 3 biggest things I see. Just one more thing I wanted to share in the context where we're speaking like on an international level is I've had the privilege to work with a lot of internationally trained lawyers, both through my work at the University of Calgary and through my business, Ontario Bar Exam Coach. And something I see through my coaching business is I see so many internationally trained lawyers excel so much through this process. But something that is common is sometimes there is a disconnect between an understanding of the information solely because it wasn't taught to them in a Canadian law school. So for students that come and do the bar exams who maybe haven't had the opportunity to do a Canadian LLM and learn those subjects in a classroom, learning these subjects through self-study in the NCA and through the bar exams, often in a second, third, or sometimes even fourth language, can be really challenging. And I think, like, when I work with students who are experiencing this situation, I just think it's so admirable. And my best advice would be to give yourself that more time, like I was talking about. The last thing I'll say on this is something I haven't mentioned yet, is that the bar exams are offered 3 times a year. So at this time, they're offered every spring, which is usually June. Sometimes it's one of the last days in May, but it's always like very beginning of June and middle of June, and then November, and then February or March. And so sometimes people feel that they need to write both exams in the same sitting. And sometimes my best advice to people, especially if you're handling many other priorities, can be splitting them up. So it is okay to write one exam in the spring and one exam in November or whenever you see fit for yourself. Just always trying to be aware of each person who's attempting the bar exams has what's called a licensing term, and that is between you and the LSO. So, you have 3 years from when you enter the licensing process to complete your articling and complete— successfully complete the exams. So, just obviously, I can recommend, you know, potentially splitting them up, but just make sure that you're doing it within the terms of your licensing term because I wouldn't want to give you that advice and then you time out. So, those are sort of my thoughts on all of that. Fantastic. Wow, that's very, very important to hear when you're thinking about preparing for it. And what came to mind now as well is that, uh, just something new that popped up. I think that the, the Law Society, um, has some restrictions as well to like how many times you can attempt to take the bar exam, and then you might be able to like ask for a special, uh, opportunity to take it again, but it's reviewed on a case-by-case basis. Yes. Did you have any experience with candidates that went through that process before? For sure, yes. I've met many candidates who've experienced that process. So, obviously, I'm always so happy to talk about the bar exams, but I always want people to go and, you know, triple-check what I say with the Law Society. I don't, like, you know, I could say something today and the Law Society could change their minds about it tomorrow. So, I am not the final authority on this. But to the best of my knowledge, at the time we were recording this, every, like, licensing candidate has 3 attempts per exam. So that's 3 attempts for the Barrister, 3 attempts for the Solicitor in your licensing term, so within that 3-year period. So 6 rights total in your licensing period. With that being said, I have also seen quite a few people who maybe have not accomplished passing the exams on the 3rd try, or maybe they just have 1 exam that they haven't passed, and you can request 1 more right in your licensing term. So, 4th right within your 3-year licensing term, and I have typically seen that be granted. But after that 4th right, then there's a longer conversation, or longer correspondence, I guess I should say, with the Law Society about what your next steps are. Typically, and again, I would direct people to the Law Society for this, but typically after that 4th right, you are required to withdraw from the licensing process for a full year, and then after a full year, you can rejoin the licensing process and start again. So start a whole new 3-year term. But what I say to people when they have this worry, especially when they're just entering the licensing process and they haven't like written a single exam, it is so easy to get caught up in the fear of the unknown and the anxiety of this process. But just remind yourself that like, obviously, like, yes, it's great that there are multiple attempts, but really try and play the long game. Like, how can I best prepare myself to walk into this exam the first time feeling confident and prepared and ready to like tackle whatever's thrown at me? And that's what I really try to work on with students. Wow, fantastic. That sounds very good. Thank you so much. Moving on, I was wondering from your experience as well, what are some effective ways that, that you've seen or that you've helped students to, to prepare? I'm sure that Getting you as a coach is a, is a very good way, but is there any other like more general tips that you could share with our audience that have helped? For sure. Like good habits that have helped candidates to succeed in the past? Yeah, so definitely. So one thing that I always talk about is this concept that I came up with that I describe as like one day versus day one. So, so often I see candidates come to me after they've maybe had an unsuccessful attempt And they have previously prepared for the bar exam using a 1-day approach. So what a 1-day approach looks like in my mind is you get your study materials from the Law Society, and you're overwhelmed by how much there is to read and how much there is to study, and you just think, I need to get through this as fast as humanly possible. And I completely understand that because that's how I attempted the exams the first time, because I failed on my first attempt, and we can talk about that more later. But I see people so often just sit down and think, okay, if I just read this, then I can figure out how to be ready for exam day after I read everything. And that's really challenging because often by the time students are done reading the materials, it's pretty close to the exam, and then they have a really short window to figure out how they're going to apply what they've read into the exam format. And what I really try to teach is the opposite of this. So I like to teach what I call a day 1 approach. And what I mean by that is, yes, you are gonna sit down and read the materials because you kind of have to. You're gonna sit down and read the materials, but you're gonna integrate strategies that have you preparing for the day of the exam starting from the very first time you sit down with your materials. That's what I really, really work on with my students is I don't want you to be scrambling at the end. I want you to do like 5 to 10 minutes of strategy work in your studying every day so that when you are done reading the materials, materials, you can just focus on applying your knowledge and the skills you've built throughout your studying into practice exams and into your final review instead of having to use that time where you'd otherwise be doing practice exams and final review to figure out, oh my goodness, how do I apply everything I've just studied on the day of the exam? So that's really like a huge difference I see between studying methods is, are you thinking about the day of the exam the first day you're studying? And if not, maybe you should consider doing that. There you go. From my experience, what I see, especially for us internationally trained lawyers, for example, in Brazil, the law society, they share all of the past exams, right? So you can practice with all the past exams. You have more of an idea of what's expected of you, yet you don't have the materials offered by the, the bar exam. So there's definitely a lot of differences from each region of the world and I love hearing about what are effective ways to study specifically for the Ontario Bar. But considering you just mentioned a personal example of yours, could you share any other, you know, memorable experiences or stories from your own time preparing for the bar? Yes. So I graduated law school from the University of Windsor Faculty of Law in Windsor, Ontario, in the spring of 2019. actually almost 5 years ago exactly to today's date. And then I wrote the bar exams right after graduation, which for a lot of students who graduate from a Canadian law school, especially an Ontario law school, that's really common is to, you know, graduate in the spring, like finish your law school exams in April, and then do your first attempt of both bar exams in June in the spring setting— pardon me, spring sitting before you begin your articles. That's very common. There are definitely exceptions to that, but that's That's sort of how the majority of people go about doing things. It's sort of how the timing of that is meant to be structured. And that's what I did. I was very burnt out and definitely was not even in a place to consider making the decision of splitting up the exams. I just was like, let's do this. But I wasn't prepared in the way that I should have been prepared. And I didn't even really realize that. Like, I didn't know what I didn't know at the time. I didn't really have like mentors who had who could, you know, share with me what they knew about the exams. I was just kind of going off what I heard on the grapevine, which was really stressful because something I always talk about with these exams is there's an overload of information, and that can be really toxic when you're on many different internet threads and you're watching 700 different YouTube videos and you're talking to your friends and you're getting all these different Google Drives sent to you from like 8 years ago and 6 years ago and 4 and a half years ago. And like all of the information is conflicting, and some people are telling you to do this and other people are telling you to read upside down and all of that. It's just so overwhelming that you don't know what information to use. And that information overload really got to me. And among other reasons, I failed both bar exams the first time I wrote them. And I found that out on my third day of articling. And that was devastating. And I rewrote both bar exams while I was articling. And this time, I split them up. So I wrote one in November of my articling year, And then I was scheduled to write my solicitor exam, the second exam, in March of my articling year. But that was March 2020. And the exam was canceled 3 days before the exam. And at the time, it was so frustrating. Obviously, like, it was the very, very earliest days of the pandemic. And so I understood, like, the need to protect people. But it was like I was just devastated. And the exam was eventually rescheduled. for June, and it was rescheduled online, and the exam had never been offered online before. I'd written previously my first attempt of both exams, and then my second attempt of the barrister exam in person, and we were the first people ever to write online. And that was also really nerve-wracking because we were the only sitting where— because they changed things after I wrote in that sitting, but we were the only sitting where Not only was it online, but the exam is now, like I said earlier, it's 4.5 hours, 160 questions. When I wrote the exam, it was 7 hours and 240 questions. And so instead of writing the 7 hours all in one day online, they split it up. So you wrote 3.5 hours on one day, and then the next day you wrote another 3.5 hours online. So it was really weird to write one exam over the course of 2 days. So yeah, those are some of the crazy experiences I had from my bar exam. experience. I was really fortunate to pass on my second attempt, and I really try to like instill what I learned from my experience and what I learned from working with so many licensing candidates into the work that I do, because I'm very cognizant of the fact that everybody's experience is different and all of us learn differently, and that's really what I try to infuse in what I teach. Wow, thank you so much. Those are really interesting experiences, and I'm glad it all worked out. I just remembered now, you mentioned something about that some people could have some accommodations to write the bar, and I was wondering what kind of accommodations are there available? I'm seeing that more and more there's a lot of a movement to help and bring more diversity to the legal field and to provide accommodations for neurodiverse lawyers and so many other things. So are there any, like, standard things that normally are done? Is it normally a case-by-case analysis? How does that work? So a couple things for anyone who's listening who's considering accommodations. The Law Society has very, very early accommodations deadlines. So if you are considering writing the bar exams anytime in the near-ish future, you need to go look at the Law Society's dates and deadlines for the licensing process. Just Google like Law Society of Ontario Licensing Process Dates and Deadlines, and it'll take you to the link. And you'll see that the deadline to submit your medical materials for accommodations is way earlier than you would ever think it was. So the best example I can give of this, just because I know it off the top of my head, is for people who are writing the exams this June, June 2024, the accommodations deadline was February 5th, 2024. So it's very far in advance. And so, that's first and foremost. Second thing is, obviously, you have to have your medical practitioners fill out extensive forms that the Law Society asks for, as well as providing other information. And so, all of that will obviously be on a case-by-case basis. So, just making sure that you can get in with your healthcare provider before the early deadline. But what it looks like in practice is different for everyone. A lot of people will get different timing. Some people might be granted double the amount of time. Some people might be granted like 33% more time, and so on and so forth. Other times, people get a variety of different accommodations. So for example, I've worked with some students who have chronic pain. So they've been given like a sit-stand desk, for example. So instead of having to sit for the entire time, they can get a sit-stand desk. I've worked with students who are breastfeeding mothers. So they've been given what's called a stop clock. So that means that you— maybe they only still have the 4.5 hours to write the exam, but they can like literally like tap out to go breastfeed and then tap back in and then the timer starts again. So obviously those are just a small handful of examples, but the accommodations range. But the last thing I'll say about accommodations is like 99.9% of accommodations like 99.99999% of accommodations means that you do not write the exam in the same location as people who don't have accommodations. So when you don't have accommodations, you typically write in like a large convention center in a room with hundreds of other people. When you have accommodations, typically you are in a private or semi-private, like maybe just with one other person, room with a proctor who's watching you one-on-one or two-on-one. So So that's— those are some of the key things that come with accommodations. Wow, fantastic. That's incredible to know that that's available because I'm sure that does help some of the students, right? Incredible. Well, those are the main things that I had to discuss about today. I really appreciate you taking the time to share with us a little bit about the Ontario Bar Exam, and I hope we can continue talking. And everybody, could you please share a little bit about whoever is interested in getting to, you know, hire your services and everything else, how could they contact you? How could they get to know more about it? Absolutely. So I'm always happy to connect with people on LinkedIn. That's where I share a lot of information and where I try to distill myths and taboos in the legal profession and about the bar exam. But additionally, my website is ontariobarexamcoach.com, and on there you can find all the information about ways we can work together. But more importantly, I have a resources tab on my website where you can go go access free resources to help you prepare for the bar exams. And then finally, if you're looking for more information about just difficult taboo topics in the legal profession, my podcast has concluded, but all of the episodes are still available on every streaming platform, and it's called Off the Tracks Podcast. So whatever you're looking for, I guarantee you'll likely find it within those episodes. Fantastic. Thank you so much for tuning in. Thank you so much once again, Piper, for joining us. Amazing. Thank you so much for having me. This was great.