Crafting Effective CVs and Cover Letters with Michael Tam

Hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Studying Law Around the World. Today we'll have the opportunity to hear from Michael Tam, who works at Osgoode PD, and he'll give us some tips and talk with us about CVs and cover letters. I know this is a topic that many, many people are interested in, especially now with summer recruitment open and so many other things. Also, applications open for many different universities. Everybody's very interested in that topic, and Michael has been an expert on that for quite a while. So please welcome Michael Tam. We'd love to learn more about you to get started today, Michael. So can you share with us a little bit about your career journey? Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be speaking on this podcast with all of you. Yeah, so my journey started in Canada. I'm actually, you know, Canadian first and foremost. But I had always wanted to be a solicitor in the UK, and everything I was doing sort of was directed that way. And so to that end, I did my LLB out in the UK. And then as I was looking at solicitor training programs, I realized, you know, I was being further and further away from my family and getting more and more disconnected. And so in reevaluating myself, I had to come back, I had to start over, I had to decide what to do. And at that time, the NCLEP So as an internationally trained lawyer, I went through the NCAs in 2013. I got called in 2015. Throughout all of my education, I had worked in different educational institutions. And so the opportunity to work at Osgoode came up and to help other internationally trained lawyers who had literally just gone through what I had just gone through, I couldn't pass up that opportunity. And so I took up a contract role with Osgoode PD in 2015, and I've been here ever since. That's great. ever since, helping ITLs and other lawyers in their academics and career goals. And one of the greatest, greatest things that I'm able to do here at Osgoode PD is create resources and give opportunities to speak and have opportunities to help other ITLs with their CVs and resumes and their career journey. Wow, that's incredible. What a mission and what a What an interesting path you ended up going. I love to hear so much about this, you know, just the possibilities that the legal field brings about. But it's always so interesting to hear a little bit about what people went through to get where they're at. And I think that's what's so nice about the podcast, because when you're just reading, you know, how to do a CV, you don't know kind of like the nuance of who's behind it. So it's really nice to hear that. And kind of diving right into the topic of like CVs and cover letters, you know, what are like the key components that every CV should have to stand out in the Canadian job market? Yeah, I think that's an excellent question and one that we get at Osgoode all the time, especially from internationally trained lawyers. I think the first key component is understanding what the format of a Canadian legal resume looks like for Canadian employers because people are coming from all different jurisdictions. And you have to realize, just like court documents might vary, the actual application document format will vary as well. And so a CV from Brazil, a CV from China, a CV from the UK is going to look different than a CV from Canada. So first, understanding what the format of a Canadian resume looks like first so that employers are not spending too much time trying to find information they're used to seeing in a specific spot. Another key component that makes for a really good CV is good formatting, spelling, and grammar. I know it seems overly simplistic as a point, but it really isn't. Employers are looking at your materials as if they're assigning you work, and they're gonna see, you know, if this person will need a lot of revision and editing and feedback. Can whatever this person produced be sent directly to a client without a lot of oversight? And so spelling, grammar, formatting, and having that all be neat and perfect and perfectly aligned is crucial. I would say in terms of content, you want to make sure first that the most relevant skills from your past experiences are emphasized so that employers don't have to spend time interpreting it for themselves, whether that's how an international example of your experience translates to Canada, but even how maybe a non-legal job might translate to this articling position, you want to make sure you're the one highlighting the relevant skill from those experiences and not making the reader work hard at finding that. And my last thing that I would say that helps make a CV stand out is by being memorable. Employers are reading, you know, 400, 500 of these at any given time, and they're having to make decisions really quickly. And so you want to showcase the most memorable, most sophisticated, most interesting work that you've ever done so that as the reader, not only can I get through your really quickly because of the format. I don't have to pay attention to mistakes, but then I know you've already presented all of the relevant skills I'm looking for, and you found ways to make yourself memorable in a stack of applications. Fantastic. And from what I'm hearing, all of these are really great tips that work for the job market, but for those who are trying to apply for an LLM, it's pretty much the same thing, right? I think— I feel like the same advice would would be applicable in that case. Would you agree? Absolutely. I think, you know, when I talk about creating a good CV and cover letter, my, my advice is not limited to the summer position or the articling position. It's going forward, any application you make in Canada, whether that's for law, whether that's not for law, whether that's for an LLM program, whether that's for graduate studies, all of that will still need to be relevant. And to your point about an LLM program, you know, the fact that you've advocated in court might not be as relevant in an LLM program where we're really trying to assess your abilities in legal research and writing. And so by having a litigation-heavy-focused resume, you might not be a good fit for the LLM because you're not then highlighting the exact skills we're looking for. Incredible. That's, that's really good piece of advice. Thank you. And considering the amount of time you've had reviewing internationally trained lawyers' CVs, what are like the main mistakes or the main problems you see with them? I guess besides the formatting thing that you just mentioned. Yeah, I think, you know, there's a few key mistakes that I've seen. The first is by being too vague. There's a few reasons why candidates will write their resumes a little bit vague. First, often is I hear, well, I have a chance to explain that in an interview and expand on it in an interview. And my response to that is, you don't get the interview until you convince me in your bullet points. So don't go vague because I'm not gonna understand what the relevance of what you're saying is. Another reason people tend to go a little bit vague is because as senior lawyers, as senior litigators, as people who've been sort of a little bit more experienced in the profession, it's hard to encapsulate everything that you've done on a file in one bullet point. And so I'll often see bullet points that say things like, led the legal team to successfully win a case, or represented this company on XYZ merger. And why that is vague is because the types of skills I'm looking at you for as an articling student aren't to lead a team of litigators, aren't to manage a case from beginning to end. And while you do have that experience as a senior lawyer, you have to break down the constituent skills that you had being very senior. So I often have to tell students who are writing in this manner, you know, being a leader of a team requires all sorts of other skills like time management, communication, teamwork, project management. And those are the skills that an articling student would need to have. And so instead of just saying led the team, focus on maybe the time management aspect of leading a team of 5 lawyers with a roster of, you know, 200 different files. And that gives me an example of a more specific skill that is relevant. A second common mistake I see is being overly verbose. So the opposite of being too vague, having it be multiple lines long, multiple sentences long, being overly descriptive. There's all that research out there that says people are looking at resumes for about 10 to 15 seconds, and whether that's fair or not, that is the reality of the situation. And so, as lawyers, you know, when you're reading a document that's incredibly dense, very little of that will get into your memory. And so making sure that your bullet points are concise and to the point, super important. Another common mistake I see is not tailoring the— tailoring the bullet points to the specific job. So I mentioned this earlier a little bit, but again, you know, if you're applying for a full-service firm, then I want to see the range of skills in all of the different kind of practice areas that I might ask you to actually action on. And so where people are just trying to describe their job from before, the way that they understand it, they're not translating it to the job that they're actually applying for. And so it's similar to the point I was just mentioning earlier. If you're applying for an LLM program, I'm looking for a legal research writing ability. And so emphasizing all of your, you know, practice management and confidentiality with clients, those skills are not matching up to what I'm looking for. So make sure you go through every bullet point and think, Is this a skill that they're looking for me to have in this job? And making sure that you're tailoring it that way. Another point to tailoring is making sure that the experiences also are tailored that you're bringing up. The things that you want me to know about your past experience, you know, the types of clients you've worked with, are these the type of clients this employer also works with? And so I can make sort of a mental connection to it. Or are these the kinds of issues that you are used to and familiar with or an expert in? And are these issues that I'm going to ask you to have in this job. The reverse is also true. For example, if you've been an IP lawyer all of your life and you're applying to something full service, by narrowing too deep into all of the IP work, as the employer, because it's not tailored to all of the different practice areas, I'm going to be concerned, are you going to be bored in a litigation rotation or a corporate rotation that has no IP work available for you? And so tailoring is Crucial. And not understanding how your materials are being read by an employer is, I think, the most common mistake. Again, there's this idea that, well, I can explain what I wrote in an interview. And again, the reality is just you're not going to get the interview until you've proven to me on paper that you deserve it. And so I want candidates who are listening to this to remember your application and your interview go together, but you don't get the interview until you get the application successful. And these are all still just examples of legal skills. Your written advocacy skills for yourself in your written materials have to be just as good as your oral advocacy skills in an interview for yourself. Wow, that makes a lot of sense. I, I I really enjoy hearing this and understanding that it really has a lot to do from like which perspective you look at it. And I especially enjoyed like, you know, hearing from, you know, look at it with the employer's perspective in mind, or try to have a perspective of, you know, look at your job, the one you did, with the perspective of, you know, what of those skills are transferable. So I really enjoyed, you know, hearing that. Yeah, as a career coach, I think that's the biggest thing I try to achieve in my one-on-one meetings with my LLM students especially. I'm not there to edit every bullet point or how to change how you say the words. My job as a career coach is for the candidate to see, how does this read to somebody who's never practiced in Brazil? How does this read to somebody who never has met you before? And how can you get it across on paper, the caliber caliber and quality of your experience, how impressive it is. And you need to practice putting that mindset on. So I jokingly tell all of my students that, you know, people who've met with me multiple times in career coaching sessions, they start hearing my voice in their head asking them after every bullet point, why should the reader care about this bullet point? And often the answer to that question is what they should have written. So for example, you know, I just saw one this past week where a student said, I got first place in this writing competition. And on the face of it, I think, you know, everyone would think that's an impressive bullet point. But asking them the question, okay, so why should the reader care that 5 years ago you won a competition? The answer to that was, well, it showcases my legal researching and writing ability, and I won over 500 other students. And so my suggestion for that would have been, you know, highlighting the skill, legal research and writing recognized over 500 other competitors to win first place. And in that way, it's the same information but relayed in a way that's relevant to the employer rather than I won an award 5 years ago. Why should I care about it? Oh, I see that. I see that. And I guess that really highlights a lot of the, how do you tailor that, right? If you think about it, if you think it truly does help, and it takes a lot of work, right? I feel like at first you might think, oh, I'm just gonna make my CV list of the opportunities, but it takes a lot of reading again, opening it one more time, and it definitely feels like it's never good enough, right? There's always you always read it one more time and you're like, oh, maybe I could take that word out, or should take this again, or, you know, wake up in the morning like, oh, I forgot to mention this incredible experience. I've been working on mine for, for quite a while now, and I feel like, uh, I, I had to maybe stop opening it up because I always had something that I thought, oh, maybe I could, you know, change it up a little bit, these or that. But, um, I, I understand the importance of tailoring it to each job application. And what are some other practical ways do you see that students should be proactive on doing that when they are preparing their CVs for these kinds of opportunities? Yeah, I mean, at first I want to address that frustration is real. As somebody who reviews applications for the LLM program, applications for 2L, applications for articling, applications as a career coach. I see thousands and thousands of resumes and cover letters all the time. And even when I go back to update my own for a new role or for a board position, it still takes me 45 minutes to an hour to update my own. And I do this all the time. And so don't be too hard on yourself because it is a difficult thing to do. But you have to invest that time into it. Another thing I will say is, you know, it's uncomfortable for a lot of us, especially as ITLs, to sort of present ourselves, to sell ourselves, to be boastful or to be almost seen as egotistical about our experiences. But, you know, the counter to that is recognizing nobody is advocating for you but yourself. And so you've got to be your best advocate and you've got to put your best foot forward. So you are the one who has to translate how impressive you are on paper to this employer. And so again, that just takes time. In terms of practical ways to tailor your experience, well, first, of course, like you said, it's incredibly important to do. Employers immediately can tell. I certainly can tell immediately when a resume and cover letter is a template cover letter, where if you replace one paragraph or one sentence and replaced it with another firm or another I could tell, certainly I've seen admissions applications for the LLM program where a person is applying not to Osgoode PD. They've forgotten to do the quick replace of a different school. And, you know, I understand that that happens, but again, it goes to an attention to detail. It goes to a thought. It goes to how much this person is trying to tailor each of their applications to different people. So the practical ways to do this, first is to look at the job description. Make sure the language that you're using, the skills that you're highlighting, are part of the job description or what you know about what they're doing. Any conversations you've had about the job and the skills you need to bring up, make sure those are what you're mirroring in your application. Why that's important first and foremost is it tells the reader you know what relevant skills you're bringing from your past experience. But more and more, remember that digital analysis and AI software are being implemented in the first initial review of applications. And so that software is going to pick up how often similar job words come up, similar skills, similar actions. And so where you're mirroring the language of the job description, that software is also going to pick up a similarity index that's higher, and you're more likely to be shortlisted for an interview or at least be reviewed by a human after the fact. In the informational interviews and networking that you've done, can you seed in the information you've put— learned about the firm and about this job? What kind of things did you find out that you couldn't have just found out through the website? And by adding those in, the recruiter can see, oh, they've made concerted efforts to meet with other people. They learned more about what they're going to be asked to do. They seem excited about the things that we're going to ask them to do. And so seeding in that kind of information is super crucial. It also helps, again, you translate the experience you have in a way that's meaningful to each employer. Not all of you will have had the experience that maybe this firm's work encompasses, but by showing me you have relevant skills or you've worked with similar types of clients or you've worked on similar types of issues across other areas of law and how it relates to this kind kind of work, it then makes it all a lot more obvious to the reader. Oh, this person has not only thought about how their past experiences are relevant, but they know how they might apply those in the current job. One of the biggest things about translating experience, especially if you don't have a lot of experience or you don't have experience in a specific area, is thinking about the components of a file that might be relevant across different practice areas. So a common example I like to give is if all of your experience has been in litigation, there's a part of litigation that's about evidence gathering and information gathering where you have to request documents, you have to review hundreds of files, you have to identify key dates and timelines. And in litigation, that is again evidentiary disclosure. It might be part of the discovery process. It might be part of your client interviewing. In transactional work, we don't necessarily have what those titles for what is being done, but recognize that corporate lawyers doing due diligence are also reviewing thousands of documents, identifying key dates and risk, identifying you know, specific gaps in information, requesting for more information. And by presenting the information not as, you know, client interviewing on a litigation file, but maybe reviewing thousands of different disclosures for key timelines, then the transactional corporate lawyer employer might see, oh, this is a relevant skill because I'm going to be asking them to do due diligence, which is again just reviewing thousands of documents for key times and key risk. And so So knowing how to translate your past experience across different areas of practice, across different jobs, and across even non-lawyer jobs. For example, I worked in customer service, and I'm not going to, on a legal resume, talk about handling the money or closing the cash at the end of the day. I might instead recognize that being a lawyer is about client service and dealing with high-needs clients. And so as a customer service representative, I did that as well. I had to deal with very frustrating clients. I had to manage their expectations. I had to deal with internal policies about how things should work and work and safety policies. Maybe those are the things I highlight from those non-legal jobs to tailor to this specific job. And so there are lots of different ways to tailor it. But again, an employer can tell really quickly if you've tried because there's a huge difference between you just describing the job you had and you actively trying to find a way to translate it to the reader who's caring about why this might be relevant for this job. Fantastic. Fantastic. I feel like everybody could benefit from that. And as you said, it's definitely something that we have to be always editing if we're looking into different opportunities. Incredible. Well, we talked, I guess, quite a lot about CVs and how important they are. I feel like most things are like pretty common, you know, have your education, have your professional experience, you know, volunteer work, languages, those things in the end. But moving on to our cover letter, the, the second part of it, I guess, and quite important in the Canadian job market from what I've been gathering. What are some of the essential elements of it, especially of making a compelling document that people actually want to read? in the legal market in Canada? Yeah, I think cover letter as a name is misleading because a lot of people think, oh, it's the COVID page of my application, and so I don't need to say more than, here's my application, please consider it. And that's again sort of not understanding how a Canadian legal employer might be looking at a cover letter. And so the best piece of advice I can say first and foremost is the employer is looking at your cover letter as if it were a research memo that could go out to a client. Because in a one-page research memo— and Articling students are going to be assigned numerous one-page research memos— it's about, can you get our point of view across to a client? Can you get our argument across to a client and be convincing about what position we're going to take? The COVID letter needs to achieve that same level of argumentation, except the argument you're trying to make is, I am the perfect candidate for you, and across these 3 or 4 paragraphs, I'm going to convince you that I'm the perfect candidate for you. And so, just like a research memo going to a client, it has to be formatted, spelled, grammatically correct, but it needs to be argumentative. It needs to lay What are your arguments for why you deserve this job? And so in terms of structure, I often see ITL NCA candidates with a very standard, but albeit boring structure, which is, hi, I'm an NCA candidate. I'm an LM student with X program. I have these skills. I have these experiences. I'm really excited to learn and grow. Please consider me. And again, when I'm working as a career coach with LLM students at Osgoode PD, I ask them, if I were the employer and I asked you, what are the top 3 reasons you deserve this job, do the topic sentences of each of those paragraphs encapsulate your arguments for why you deserve this job? And often And the answer is no. No, I want to show them how passionate I am about this area of law. I want to show them that I've worked on similar tasks that they're going to ask me to do. I'm like, okay, if that's what you intended to say, that's what you should write, because those are the arguments you're trying to make. And so first and foremost, one of the— I want ITLs to remember, until you explicitly say your argument, It's not an argument that you're making. Often students will say like, but I've written about all these skills from my past, so they should assume that I have the skills going forward. Lawyers are taught not to assume anything. You give them facts. You haven't applied it to this new scenario. And so for those of you who are going into LLM programs or already in LLM programs, the best way to do the tailoring is to remember that in legal arguments and fact analysis. We use IRAC here: issue, rule, application, conclusion. The COVID letter should be all application. It should be all applying your past facts to this new scenario. So how do your past education, how does your past work actually apply to this new job, this new country, this new firm? And that's the argument you need to be making in every paragraph. So you can't just repeat what's on your resume because those are just facts that are already existing in another document. The COVID letter is the application of those facts to this new scenario. Part of telling me this argument is also about telling me a story about who you are, because again, your resume hopefully becomes a concrete list of your most relevant skills and most amazing experiences. I need to know why you left those amazing experiences to start as a student here, especially for those of you who've been more senior. You had a great career back home, you were seeing your partner back home. Why do you want to be a student for the next 10 months for me? Why did you uproot your entire life to come to Canada here for me? ITLs and NCA candidates often feel very hesitant to get that personal. However, as a lawyer, you know when you're looking at a file, when you're talking to a client, there things they're not telling you. There are things that they're avoiding telling you. And as a legal professional, those are the first things you wonder about when you're looking at a file. It's the same when I'm looking at an ITL application. Why is this person interested in being here? Why? What is their long-term goal? Why did they uproot themselves from their old country? Why did they leave such an amazing career back home to start as a student here? You know, these are going to be questions that Canadian employers have So you wanna make sure that you're telling me a story that I can understand and empathize with and relate to, and that it's not just left out of context. Because the concern about not telling me a story in the COVID letter is I don't know what your end goals are going to be and whether or not my firm aligns with that. Are you gonna take my opportunities to give you growth and learning? and move back home and be dual qualified? Are you going to go and move to a competitive firm and take all that training away? How am I going to get my return on investment in giving you all of that training and growth? And so again, you want to make sure part of your story and part of your argument is how this is the right opportunity for you in the long term, and that this is all working towards a goal that this firm is going to help you achieve. And then finally, in terms of a compelling cover letter, I want you to tell me more than you've just looked up my firm online. Again, I'll see sort of template resume cover letters where it says like, oh, I want to apply to your firm because it's one of the most notable world-recognized firms in all of Canada. They know that. They don't need to be told that. But what is it about working at a world recognized top firm that's appealing to you? Because truth be told, it's not appealing to everyone, and they're looking for a certain type of person that really does fit in with that environment. Similarly, with the small firm, you know, if all of your experience has been in the public sector or at large firms back home, and now all of a sudden you're applying to a sole practitioner doing real estate, the question is, why are you giving all of that up, switching from public to private, or going from these multinational firms to wanting to work one-on-one with clients at our boutique? Boutique firm. And so making sure that you've not only done the research on the firm, but you've again figured out your argument for why this is the right place for you. So all that to say that, you know, there's no essential formatting and structure to a cover letter. The COVID letter really needs to be a one-page argument where you're applying your past facts to this new fact scenario, and you're giving me a story about who you Already fantastic, fantastic. Well, and you mentioned all of these tailoring and you know say that which is not necessarily on the website. So from what I've been gathering as well, there seems to be a common practice of like talking to people doing virtual coffee chats. And I was wondering too about the the practice of name dropping on a cover letter, saying like I spoke with XYZ. they told me these things, that's what made me excited about applying. Is that like a good practice? Is that something that people should strive to do, or it really depends on the situation and it could be, you know, more— less beneficial than beneficial? So I would say it is always more beneficial to do that, with the caveat of make sure that who you're mentioning that you've had a good interaction with them and not just any interaction with them. Make sure it's somebody who will speak positively about the interactions you've had, that when they reflect on it, they can say, oh yeah, that's— that person seemed great. They seem smart. They ask great questions. And don't do it just for the sake of name-dropping. Again, remember, this is supposed to be an argument. And so saying, oh, I talked with these 5 people. That's a fact. But talking about those people and how amazing they were to have that conversation with and how at ease you felt when you had those conversations, how you feel like you fit in with the team already because you've had those conversations, that's the argument. So when you're name dropping, again, don't just name drop it as a fact. Make sure you're mentioning why you're talking about those people, what you've learned about that firm as a result of it, and how those interactions have really made you more excited to apply for this firm. Why it's also important to sort of give context to that is because, one, it shows the people who've made a concerted effort to make a personal connection versus the people who are last minute applying to 50 different firms and trying to use a template. Mm-hmm. Another reason it's really crucial is because those recruiters who are reviewing those files, again, want a quick way to sort through who they're going to shortlist to ask for an interview. And if you've mentioned 4 or 5 people that they've connected with, I, as the recruiter, can go to those lawyers or articling students and say, hey, this person mentioned having a conversation with you. Do you think they'll be a good fit for our office? And those conversations lead to people being shortlisted. On the flip side, I've had lots of recruiters tell me they had amazing conversations with potential candidates that they've really been excited to hopefully receive their application, and those people never applied. And so you just never know how those connections and the people you're looking to connect with might be on the receiving end of those applications and might be excited and waiting for the— your application to in. And it also sort of shows how you've gone about networking with the Canadian legal community. Are you, for example, meeting with alumni from an LLM program that you're currently enrolled in? Are you connecting with other lawyers from the jurisdiction that you've come from? Are you connecting with senior partners in a practice area that you have expertise in? And it shows not only the caliber of how professionally, how professional you are at networking, but also the range of ways you've tried to find out about our firm. Wow, that's incredible. Those are just invaluable. I think that this one piece of podcast, this one podcast will definitely be a go-to to send to a lot of people who've, you know, I've interacted with before. I hope so. Thank you. Thank you so much. And as a final question for today's episode, I know that in the business world in general, you know, things like employment gaps in their career are, you know, this kind of situation could be seen as red flags. And logically, a lot of internationally trained folks who have when they transition over, you know, and I was wondering, should those be addressed right away in a cover letter? Besides that, just to kind of add into that, most of the firms, from what I've been seeing, they also have been asking for grades. And then you bring up your grades from your previous jurisdiction, and maybe those are not good. Should you also address that? Those situations. So I guess like when you think those are not the ideal situation, should you just go ahead and address those possible red flags right away, or should you maybe wait for an interview and see if they get brought up at all? You know, what would you say in those circumstances? I think that's an excellent question. And the first way to sort of frame what my answer is gonna be is remember that often both the recruiter and the hiring team are lawyers who are reviewing these files. And as lawyers, we are trained to look for red flags, to look for gaps in time, to look for information that's not clear, to look for risk. And so knowing that the, the majority of the readers are going to be lawyers who are primed to assess risk, I think it's not in your best interest to hope that that gap is ignored or that you don't have to address it in some way. I've certainly been in situations where, you know, that one thing you decided not to prepare for during trial is the exact thing that the Superior Court judge is going to argue at you for, for the 40 minutes. Why didn't you prepare that? Why isn't that something that you're ready to answer? And so I would say that when you're addressing gaps, yes, you You, you 100% should, but just talk about it honestly. Remember that you are a blank slate to the reader, and so anything that you want them to know, you can tell them. And if you don't want to go too private and personal, you don't have to, but you certainly have to tell me enough so that I understand or can be empathic about or sympathetic about whatever situation arose that either caused that gap or caused that bad mark. Another thing is remember that, you know, everyone knows that life happens and, you know, maybe you took 2 years off because you wanted to spend time with your newborn and that time was invaluable for you to spend because that was their formative years and you wouldn't trade it for the world. I think anybody would understand that. And so being cognizant that as long as you're telling your story in a way that somebody can understand, then that's never going to be a hindrance. Or if it is going to be a hindrance, maybe that's a signal to you that that's not the right firm for me. If you're having specifically low grades or you've performed poorly, or there's another sort of red flag situation that you are worried about, Again, I don't think ignoring it is the best way to go, but as a risk assessor, as lawyers, we're trained to figure out, is this still a risk? So if this was a poor grade from 4 years ago, what caused it? Was it, you know, the death of a family member and you were grieving and therefore you didn't perform well? Or was it, you know, you didn't have an identified you know, diagnosed learning disability, but you now have all of the tools and strategies to implement in your own practice that those are not things that are gonna affect you now. So always not only address what the issue was, but talk about how those are not things that are gonna affect your ability or they're gonna affect it in, you know, the betterment of the work that you're gonna produce. Alrighty. Wow, thank you so much. Well, thank you everybody who tuned in. Thank you, Michael, so much for giving us the chance to hear about all these different aspects that you should look at those very important documents on, because really you can't do much about your transcripts, you can't do much about your recommendation letters to some extent, but really those are the documents you can do a lot of work on. So I think those tips were really invaluable, and just, you know, uh, hearing from these perspectives really do help out. So thank you so much for joining us today, Michael, and hope to see everybody again on the next few episodes. Thank you so much.