Relationships, Strategy, and Accountability with Chandler Lauzon

Welcome to studying law around the world. I'm Claudio Claus in each episode. I talk. With lawyers, law students and professors from different parts of the world to talk about legal education, careers, and what the profession looks like in real life. We talk about the hard parts, the surprises and the decisions that. Shaped their paths. Whether you're planning to study abroad, thinking about working in another legal system, or just curious about how law works around the world, this podcast is for you. Today, I have the opportunity to interview Chandler Lauzen, who is the Chief Growth Officer at the law firm Castles. He serves in this role and focuses on enhancing the firm's client relationship and service, ensuring that the firm delivers differentiated value and a meaningful results for for clients. Thank you so much for taking the time to be in the podcast today, Chandler. Thanks, Claudia. Appreciate. Oh, and I appreciate you taking the time to start off our podcast. I'd love if you could introduce yourself a little bit more to our listeners and also if you could tell us a little bit more about how you got into the path here today focused on law firm. Growth. Yeah. Well, Chandler Lawson, I have been on the B side of of law firm service for about 20 years now. But I refer to myself lovingly, I suppose, as a recovering lawyer, having practiced early in my career and you know, in, in the context of private practice at a large national firm. I've also been in house at a public company in Canada and have been in house in a small, I dare say startup technology company in Canada. And so I've practiced law and a whole variety of contexts before making the shift over to the business development side of of a law firm. And certainly that grounding has been valuable for me and has enabled me to speak the language really of my clients and my customers who are the partners and and lawyers of the firm. Amazing. Schindler, if I may ask you thinking about this transition of practicing law into if, if I recollected rights 1st at first writing proposals and then ensure BDM role now for for over 25 years, if I'm not mistaken. What did that transition teach you a little more about, you know, how the law firms operate and maybe that part that most lawyers never get to see? Yeah, I would say there's a couple thoughts. 1, I don't think I was particularly sophisticated as a as an associate in a law firm enough to understand a few realities of, of what law firm life is like. A number one, I think that the the, the side of the proposal work that taught me that not all partners are created equal. It gave me a window into some of the politics that are that in a law firm. It gave me a window into some of the realities of how different lawyers go about building their their book of business in different ways. The nature of pricing. So the time I shifted over into a proposal role was around 2006. So for those of you old enough to know back then it was boom time still, right? Lots of M&A, lots of capital markets for law firms were going great guns. And then all of a sudden everything went over a Cliff in 2000 and 2008 and we had a financial crisis and our recession and so on and so forth. Things like pricing became imperative, things like client service became imperative. Things like technology used to reduce the cost of legal services started to come into focus. And so, you know, seeing some of the machinations of these things behind the scenes as a proposal person, I think was incredibly instructive for not only me and my career and and being able to connect dots for lawyers about how business gets built and how we position good value to clients and how we in fact sell our services in a competitive market place. But a lot of those same similarities are coming back around as we sit here in 2026. Incredibly packed marketplace economy that's sort of peddling along and and you know, certainly the stock markets great, but but the the environment for client buying behaviors is maybe a little bit bit trickier. A lot of consolidation in the legal market, certainly in the United States, perhaps that trend is going to come to Canada and a lot of focus on value and pricing and what does it cost, Why does it cost so much to hire lawyers. And so a lot of those themes are coming back around. It's interesting now that to be through, you know, 20 years on and see a lot of these same themes come back around. And so I would say to, to lawyers, to young lawyers, to, to people in, in functions other than practicing law in a law firm, everything is cyclical. Everything will come back around. The trends you thought were dead and buried 20 years prior will in fact come back around and be prevalent again in your career if you do this long enough. Very, very interesting. After all these years kind of being in that position and and seeing the client conversations, the Peaches and all of that, I'm curious if you've seen some kind of trend, just like you said, things are cyclical. Are there a few points that maybe lawyers frequently misunderstand about how clients actually choose their lawyer, maybe beyond the pricing aspect of? It yeah, No, there's quite a few and I'll just point out a couple, you know, and I have sat with GC's, I have interviewed clients of the firms that I've been at. I have, I have sort of sat in on, on panels of buyers and consumers of our services. And a couple of themes always seem to prevail #1 it's about relationships. And so, you know, we're going to get into this in a little bit, but but investing in meaningful, sincere, authentic relationships with your clients and prospective clients is, is key. Yes, it's selling and, and for a long, long time, sales was a dirty word in legal practice, but it doesn't need to feel like selling and it shouldn't make you feel like a used car salesman. It is a relationship selling. So that's number one. Number two, I would say I've heard a lot of GC's and, and you know, business people say the best lawyers understand my business. What does that mean exactly? I think there is a degree of practicality and commerciality that needs to be brought to bear to the practice of law that makes the most effective and the most, you know, strong lawyers and the best business developers. What do I mean by that? Understanding your clients business objectives. Understanding your clients risk tolerance. Understanding the politics between the C-Suite and the boardroom and the business. Understanding how a particular legal solution is going to resonate from a reputational perspective, understanding how a particular outcome is going to resonate on the balance sheet, these are all the sorts of skills I think that the most, the most successful lawyers are able to bring to bear. And when clients say no, my business, I believe it's things like that that they want to want to receive from us and I think they want to receive recommendations from their experts, right? They're paying us a lot of money to be their experts. And so, you know, lawyers can say, well, you know, you can do option A or you can do option BI Think the best lawyers say, I think you should do option A because it best meets your business objectives. It most accords to your, to your risk tolerance in the marketplace. It it best positions the members of the board and the, and the management team for success. It is the thing your clients, your own customers are going to care about. It is going to deliver the right value to them. And, and just being able to articulate what the preferred legal solution does to drive the right business outcome, I think is a skill that the very best lawyers have in abundance. Very. Nice though, thanks for sharing that. Something that that I've been noticing is that in law school, we hear a lot of kind of the same little quotes and sometimes they make a lot of sense right away and sometimes they're kind of hard to understand what that actually means. But you know, you hear a lot about how things compound over time or how you got to play the long game and, and all of these things. And I'm curious, you know, if there is. A. Specific things maybe that's separate those lawyers who can build those strong client relationships and those who may be struggle or take a little bit of extra time in coaching to get there, even if they they know the law and the technicality is very strong. You, you just mentioned a very important point of understanding the business, but are there a few other things as well that you notice? I think the ability to make business development development habitual and, and what do I mean by that? I, I think those, those sincere sorts of check-ins with clients, the ability to stay connected to what's going on in an industry based on what's happening in the news, following, you know, if you're dealing with public companies, what's going on in their press releases, what's under, what's going on in their C-Suite, who's coming and going, just checking in with, with sincerity and, and honesty about what's going on over there at your business and how can we help? Not in a sales Y way, Just like I'm thinking about you. And maybe that means, Hey, here's the thing we wrote that was relevant or might be relevant to you. Thought you thought you'd get some interest in this or hey, I'm going to be at this event in a couple of days, maybe you should come along or hey, I've got these tickets I can't use. Why don't you take you and your kids out to the game on me? You know, I come back to that notion of investing in relationships in a way that feels sincere and authentic and not transactional is, I think again, it's sort of a key element to this. And, and the folks who are great technicians sometimes overlook that. Not always. I think there's folks that marry up both. And, and the other thing I would say, Claudio is, is, you know, recognizing at a certain point in your career what your strengths are and, and surrounding yourself with people who may complement the things that are not your strengths. So you can be a really great business development lawyer and get away with not being a terrific technician if you know the, the terrific technicians in the firm. If you are the terrific technician, you should probably hitch your wagon to folks who are able to make sure you are on good files and, you know, get you in front of good clients, even if that's not your sweet spot. And so there's, there's a bit of sort of reckoning and honest accounting of your own skill set and your own tools in your toolbox. And in, in current practice, putting A-Team around you is what our clients expect. Like, yes, they hire lawyers, but they hire lawyers with good teams around them. And the collaborative nature of legal practice now is such that if you sort of take stock of the skills of the people you put around you, you're trying to, you're not to, not to be few funny about it. You're trying to put The Avengers together, right? And and create these complementary skill sets who bring the right skills and tools to your client relationship and help your clients arrive at the right results. Fantastic. No, that's very, very interesting. I love the idea of kind of accounting your skill set. Even in BD. I think there's a few different styles, right? There's people who can kind of work a whole room and and can go and do public speaking. And whereas some other people I think I kind of identify a little better with like a small settings and kind of a one-on-one conversation conversations. So a big part of the listeners here in the podcast are young professionals, recently graduated or are just finishing up law school. And and I'm curious from your perspective, how should young lawyers be thinking about this early on in their careers? And just like you said, not being salesy fake, but how do how does that play your role? This is going to sound trite and simple, staying in touch with people. So your first, your very first network is the folks you went to school with. And the folks you went to school with are going to take many diverging paths in their own careers. The most effective lawyers, I think, are able to stay in touch with people, even if those are light touch connections, right? They may not all be your best friend, but if you're using, you know, LinkedIn, you're using word of mouth, you're staying on top of your alumni network and so on and so forth to understand the moves people are making in their own careers and following them, taking a genuine interest in those moves. How's it going? Hey, hey, you know, how are you settling in? What's it like on the other side? What's it like doing in-house work? What's it like being at that firm? What's it like changing gears entirely and going into private equity or entrepreneurship or whatever it might be? You know, so, so I would, I would invite young lawyers coming out of school in their first few years of practice. Take stock of the relationships you already have. Don't, don't necessarily have to shoot for the moon and aim for that, that CEO that might be a little bit unattainable in years, you know, 1-2 or three. Stay close to the people that are close to you because I guarantee you not everybody's gonna stay in private practice. Not everybody's gonna be a competitor forever. A lot of them are gonna go in house and someday those in house people are going to be in positions to make decisions about who they hire. And so if you have invested in those relationships, if you have stayed close to people and, and been sincere about it and, and taken a genuine interest in, in people's pathways, those, those connections will come back around to serve you well. And the second thing I would say is, is I hear this from clients all the time. And I think both law firms and young associates maybe don't do a great job of, of teeing this up effectively. I hear from clients all the time. We want to meet your whole roster. We want to understand who's who's on the team at the junior level. Why? Not just to know who's doing our work, but because we also have junior people, whether they're in house lawyers, whether they're in house business people, whatever it is, we want to make introductions. And so I would say to associates, you have to be a bit of a squeaky wheel on this with your partners and with the files that you're on. When you meet the client, when you get client FaceTime, when you meet your contemporaries on the client side, stay close to those people too. Check in, grab a coffee, go to dinner, go on a tour. 1 of the, the best pieces of advice I got for as a young lawyer working in the automotive sector was go check out the floor, Go see what they build over there. Go check out how they make cars or make widgets or whatever. Nothing will ingratiate you with a client more than saying, tell me more about your business. Tell me more about your business process. Tell me more about how you sell things. Tell me more about how you make things. So, so staying close when you do get those, those little kernels of client contact, figure out who your people are, especially people of a similar vintage or especially people at a similar point in their careers. That's your, that's your network. That's where you you build the seeds and you plant proceeds and three, 5-10 years down the road they will germinate and they will come back around. And Tastic, thanks. Thanks for sharing that. I was reading a little bit of what you shared in the past and in some of the writing and all of that and I see that it seems like 3 pillars often come around and, and those are accountability, strategy and execution. I wanted to hear a little bit about that. How does that work? And even if our those specific to firm settings that have, you know, a business development department or are we talking about you know, principles that could be applied to anyone in any area of practice? Yeah, I mean, listen, I'll start with strategy on this because I think that's the the the first building block and then I'll get to execution and accountability. So, so listen, law firms are partnerships and collections of individuals, right? And partnerships and individuals are inherently self interested. And I think a lot of times in a marketing and BD function, it's easy to get caught up in the needs of the 100 partners, the 200 partners, the day-to-day of demands and asks and, and, and, and products that they require of us. Strategy to me is that longer term, bigger picture, right? It's the ability to articulate what kind of a business do we want to be, who are we going to serve? What markets are we going to play in and how are we going to win? That is an exercise that has to happen at the management level. It does have to happen at the practice group level, the industry group level, and perhaps even at the individual level. And so we don't have enough of those conversations. And law firms, I would say it's difficult to get set and to resource that effectively to have a meaningful conversation informed by data, informed by financial information, informed by a real deep and inherent sense of where we are in the marketplace and and what kinds of clients we're trying to service. Less essential, once you have articulated some of those objectives, then you have to execute and that is the secret sauce. So execution and accountability are related here. Again, it's very easy to get off track. It is very easy to take that strategy, document that, plan that the stuff you've articulated, stuff it in a drawer and pull it out again next year when it's time to do planning. I see it happen all the time in law firms and it is a mistake. Execution is the secret sauce of actually being able to move the needle towards the achievement of those strategic objectives and the secret sauce within the execution is accountability. Now, how do we set up accountability processes in a law firm? It's really tricky. These are slow moving, somewhat inert business structures. There is a sort of a built in bias for those towards the end of their careers to not make big change, right? Especially in big law and this sort of 58 plus crowd who can kind of see the end and go, I don't want to rock the boat too much because I'm going to get my capital out here soon anyway and I don't need big change. However, setting up systems by which we shine some sunlight on the right behaviors, our people behaving in ways that are are bringing in top line revenue. Are people behaving in ways that bring in revenue that is in turn profitable. So not every hour is created equal. Are we going after profitable work and we can service that work profitably and and collaboratively, right? I would say that the, the effective and most successful offerings of the future are going to be those that enable their teams and reward collective behavior. It's almost antithetical to some of what we've been taught as young lawyers. It's it's almost antithetical to some of what we've been taught and sort of Western economies. But I think collective behavior and, and collective success and incentivizing collective success and incentivizing real collaboration is what's going to set apart the successful law firms in the future and is going to inoculate those law firms from the quote, UN quote, threat of the incursion of AI and legal practice, the downward pressure on fees. If you can, if you can deliver good value, all of that stuff's going to sit on the sidelines. And delivering good value is is about all of the sort of the concepts I talked about earlier, but it is about being accountable and acting collaboratively and acting collectively for the benefit of clients. Amazing. I really appreciate you sharing basically all the the trade secrets and, and lots of very, very nice insights. I'm curious here, you know, what you should dig in a little more about your personal story, something that ends up happening a lot. You know, I've done a few episodes on, you know, choosing your area in law and, and often find myself in conversations with people who like, what should I do? You know, I like XYZ. I like getting law school, But then in practice, it was so different. So people wearing unsure, you know, about their place in the profession or are thinking about it, maybe even a career change within the legal field. But what kind of advice would you give based maybe on on the experience you lived? Yeah. So, so let me back up a bit and tell you a bit more of of my journey. As I say, I was, you know, I was in in private practice, in house, in house. And and all throughout that, I think Claudio, I think, you know, there was a building sort of sense in my gut that I was not in my right place. I was not doing work that I particularly enjoyed. I don't think I was, I was growing necessarily as a, as a legal practitioner. And you know, with the benefit of sort of 20 years on, 25 years on, even you can analyze that and ask yourself, well, why was that? I think #1 as I say, I was not a particularly sophisticated young associate insofar as pushing for what I wanted. I'm pushing for practice areas and opportunities and files and exposure to partners that I, that I would have benefited from. I, I think I'm the classic case of the dialogue that happens now about law school education. Are we preparing young lawyers for the practice of law or are we sort of turning them into academics? And certainly now, you know, 25 years on from being in law school, I was probably the latter. I was someone who enjoyed the study of law. I was someone who probably had a very different conception of what practice was going to be based on my three years of law school. And then the eye opening in the first few weeks of being in private practice was really quite jarring, I must say. And so look, you know, every, everybody's journey is a little different. I, I think I benefited when I was, when I got to the sort of the end of the road and I said, this is not what I want to be doing. Practicing law is not for me. I need to explore some other paths. I had a couple things working for me #1 I didn't have a whole lot of lawyers in my family. I had no lawyers in my family. And so no one was particularly invested in me, you know, following a particularly traditional path. OK, I didn't have mom and dad over my shoulder going, Oh my God, we spent all this money on law school and now you're going to change careers. That wasn't an issue. So I, and that's, and that's a place of privilege, no question. I had a terrific peer group and friend group that we're doing interesting and different things as well. We weren't all going the sort of, you know, private practice route. I think most of us started there. But but I even at that stage of my career, you know, had people going off and going into banking and going into, you know, entrepreneurship and other, other sort of paths. And so I had a very supportive network of friends and peers who who were sort of, you know, the reaction was almost a shrug. And we, I mean, I'm not going to practice anymore. OK, What are you gonna do now? So not everybody has that, right. But I would say this, if, if you're a young lawyer and you're just, you got that gnawing feeling in your gut that this is not for me, I would say a couple of things to set yourself up for success #1 surround yourself with good people who will be supportive of that, right? And I think that's the lesson learned from me. I had that baked in. But I think not everybody necessarily has that baked in. You may have to go find it, right? Some people who can just kind of objectively offer you feedback, advice, mentorship and support for, for, you know, changing gears, changing lanes #2 do your homework. I mean, we've got, we've got, you know, more information sources than certainly I would add 25 years ago in the early days of the Internet about what else you can do with this degree. What, what other pathways might you want to to follow on to I, I, you know, I said in an article I was, I wrote it sometime back. Big law no longer has a monopoly on not just wealth creation, but you know, a healthy, happy living in law, right? And so, you know, there's lots of lanes, there's lots of room for everybody, I think, to find their path. And but but don't suffer in silence. Talk to people, talk to your colleagues, talk to your friends, talk to your loved ones, maybe even talk to your business colleagues, right? Because maybe there's a pathway for you there. If you've been knocking it out of the park for a client, maybe they'd be delighted to bring you on. Maybe they'd be delighted to talk about is there a path over here in a, in a, in a business capacity, in a corporate capacity, commercial capacity, regulatory capacity, whatever it might be. But I would say listen to your gut and do not feel or do not succumb to any self-inflicted pressure that it must look a certain way because it doesn't need to look a certain way. It should look the way you want it to look. Fantastic. I really appreciate you taking the time to come into podcast and share some thoughts, and thank you all so much for tuning into today's episode. Thanks, Claudio. Appreciate it.