The Cross-Border M&A Reality and Bridging Cultural Gaps with Casper Lindholm Dam

Welcome to studying law around the world I'm Claudio Claus in each episode, I talk with lawyers, law students, and professors from different parts of the world to talk about legal education, careers, and what the profession looks like in real life we talk about the hard parts, the surprises, and the decisions that shaped their paths whether you're planning. To study abroad. Thinking about working in another legal system or just curious about how law works around the world? This podcast is for you. Today I'll be interviewing Kasper Lindholm. Den is a lawyer who deals with company law and commercial law in assists well established Danish and international companies, as well as startups with a broad range of commercial issues, including advice on establishment, restructuring and so forth. Thank you so much for making the time to be in the podcast today. Casper Well, thank you very much for for having me, Claudio. I really like your concept here and I'm very happy to be a part of this. Absolutely. And, and I'd love for you to introduce yourself and tell us a little bit more about your journey of becoming an attorney of the Danish High Courts and also an associate partner at your law firm. Well, definitely my. My name is Casper Lindholm Dam and yes, as you mentioned, I'm an associate partner. Right now. I see myself as a as a commercial lawyer with a an international mindset who helps client navigate complexity. It can be transaction wise, cross-border work or even disputes. As far as my my journey, I would like to elaborate a bit on that because we have to go a bit back in time to understand why I ended up where where I am today, but also to understand that life and career doesn't necessarily come with a ready made formula. For me. It was never really in the cards that that I would become an attorney for a lawyer someday. My family history is that my grandfathers letter factory workers, blue collar workers, my grandma was a cleaning lady on a local ferry local school. I grew up in a working class family myself. Nobody had ever taken a university degree in my extended family. Then by coincidence, at some point my granddad ended up getting a job as a janitor in a larger apartment building in the nicer parts of of the outskirts of Copenhagen. And then somehow he got a rental apartment from my parents. That means that I I grew up being exposed to and becoming friends with kids from many different backgrounds, but also kids of lawyers, business owners, etcetera. But at that point there was never any idea for me of becoming a lawyer. Then high school came, my main focus, I was playing football, which we do a lot here in Denmark. I played at a elite level and it didn't prioritize school very much and I never really had a Plan B at that point. But basically I hope to become a professional football player. Well, then reality hits. After high school, I tried a few different paths, including working for a family friend who was actually a bricklayer. But he was very quickly to say that I was not cut out for a manual labour then. Instead, he knew his wife who was a secretary in a law firm and she said that I could probably get a job as an errand runner in this law firm. So this was my very random introduction to the legal profession. And to my own surprise, at that point, I absolutely loved the environment in a law firm, a lot of the people, the pace and the way the law interacts with real life and business. So after that, a few years later, I found myself applying for law school. And during as my second year of law school, I received a call from a newly founded business law firm in Copenhagen who needed a paralegal. And that's 13 years ago now. And I'm still with the same law firm now called Scowl Raipur, where I have worked for 13 years. And now taking the steps from a paralegal to now becoming an associate partner at that place. If you would like, I can elaborate a bit on the journey from law school to to becoming an associate partner. Absolutely. I think that would be very interesting if you could just tell us a little bit about, you know, how many years does it take? How does law school work? Is it a, a bachelor's degree? How does that work in, in Denmark? And then your, your path to the firm. That would be great to learn. So in Denmark, I started at Coburn. You're taking university. The the law school is a five year program. Oh, that's a it consists of three years becoming a bachelor's, kind of like an undergrad in the US or Canada maybe also, and then two years doing a masters program. So five years of studying law to, to get your law degree and then becoming a lawyer, you need a three years after law school at, at a law firm actually. So three years of training to becoming a lawyer. So, so basically it takes eight years to become a lawyer in in Denmark, Five years of school, three years of apprenticing. Very, very interesting and. Just your to. Kind of explain the the terms and compare them here. Here in Canada or I guess very comparatively in the US, usually you would become, you'll see it and then would become a partner. So is that the same kind of structure of of how it would go after being in like in this apprenticeship, you would then become an associate and then a partner. Is that the a similar? Outside yes, I would say it's a similar outset. You know, law firm is very, it's, it's normally very hierarchical. So yes, you become an attorney and associate. Then you, you start figuring out what yourself and the law firm, which path fits me, my personality, my, my future. And then there are some different paths, at least an hour law firm. And that's also very normal in, in Copenhagen. You can choose different paths depending on what, what career you see for yourself. But the first many years as an attorney, it's basically still focusing on working as an attorney, learning. And then gradually you will find your, your own way based on your experience, what you and what you prefer. And then for, for, from my perspective, then at some point I found it interesting to see, OK, it can I pursue this more, try to build up my own portfolio, my own relationships. And that's the path that I'm on right now, trying to at some point become a partner at my law firm. Amazing. If I may ask, what what drew you to focus specifically on, on commercial law, on, you know, contracts and maybe even what do you find most, most interesting in this specific area of practicing? Law so that's a that's also a good question because I would say in general, my my, I have a genuine interest in the rule of law itself. It's originally from law school. I, I like to have many different possibilities open because I basically I also like constitutional law as an example of something that's not relevant to what we do now. But then at some point, of course, you are shaped by the place you work, by the people you work with, by the cases you work on. And I found out that I really like this path that an eye on that I'm on right now, which is a lot of transactional work. M and a work. And what I really like about snake transactional work is that it's all based on a foundation that you know the law, that you are skilled in law. Then you have the foundation 2 after. Well, that's the drafting of the contracts. But then there is the whole business aspect besides that part, which is more to go out negotiate on. Like many times it's commercial negotiations more than law itself. But you can also adjust the the in the in the contract. You can adjust the warranty catalogue. There are some different mechanisms that you can adjust as a lawyer when you get really into the details of which I also like. So the M and A part it's, it's a very yeah, you get the best from both worlds. I think you get the law, but you also get the commercial and the negotiation. Part amazing. Well, thank you so much for sharing that. And I was very happy to learn when I was reading on your firm's website a little bit about your profile and all of that, that you do have some connections with cross-border transactions and specifically involving Latin Americans paying and that that you speak Spanish yourself. So I wanted to hear a little more about those insights on cross-border transactions and even if there's any lessons that you have learned from working internationally. Well, I would say there are many lessons to be learned from, from dealing with cross-border transactions especially well in, in Denmark, we do have a lot of connection to regional cross-border transactions because we're small country, we are depending on trade with the basically the whole whole world. So these past years I've done a lot of European or cross-border transactions. But also as you mentioned, I even had a connections with Latin America, also the US, Canada, I, I see that a lot and it's of course very dependent, dependent from country to country. Water challenge is you will see now you ask about Spain and Latin America. Basically, they have a completely different culture than we do in in Denmark, which also is reflected in their legal systems and in the way they negotiate, in the way they draft contracts and the way what they expect. Basically, as a concrete example in an M and a context that could be, I recently had a Spanish transaction where the Spanish Spire wanted to buy Danish company and they had completely different expectations on the warranty catalog there. There they want warranties from the seller of basically everything that the seller has to, to get warranties on, on, on, on everything. Historically, that's in Danish context, that's not common. We have some very fix the warranties that you would give some teeth are fundamental warranties. I own the company as an example. That would be a fundamental warranty that you cannot, you have to, to obey with. Then you have a, you know, the, the, the other more customary usual warranties that would last maybe 1 1/2 to two years In Spain, they would expect they last 10 years, these warranties and they would also expect that all warranties are fundamental. They're not any distinction between fundamental and normal warranties. So, so that, that is just to say that there are the level of trust in Denmark and in the Nordics, we trust each other. So we have completely different setup and market standards for warranties and many other aspects in a name and a deal. Whereas in Latin America, Spain, these countries, they don't have the same, just to be frank, the same amount of trust with the partners that they work with and they sell their businesses to invest example. So they expect a, a completely different warranty catalogue as a concrete example of how these cultures can flash. And then as the M and a lawyer and this deal, you really have to try to explain both parties, what are the market standards? Why are the market standards like this? And then you will have to try to bridge these different expectations. And that's where it's going to get really interesting as a lawyer, because then you need your your cultural knowledge and background to be able to bridge this. Fantastic. I appreciate that you brought this, this last point on because I, I found it interesting that beyond being a commercial lawyer and being involved in the, in the commercial aspect of Denny's contracts and all of that, it seemed like litigation and arbitration were also part of your practice. So I wanted to hear how do you, you know, balance that advisory and transactional work with dispute resolution? As you know, in a few other parts of the world, I feel like we separate these roles. A. Little more. So I wanted to ask you, you know, specifically in your case and also if it's common in Danish law culture for lawyers to to be acting both as litigators or, or to be in this advisory role in, in sense of arbitration as well as transactional lawyers? So I also asked myself, as I said, should I choose either or? And that's always an ongoing discussion as an attorney, as a lawyer, should I specialize even further in some areas? Should I be a generalist? Should I be in between? And right now where I am, I like that point. I, I would say I am an expert in both. Of course, I could go even further on, on both tracks and becoming even better at, let's say MA transactions, even better at understanding all everything about dispute resolution. But where I am right now, I can do both. And if I have a specific question for an M and a deal, I have very good colleagues, I can go and ask them what, how do we solve this specific issue? Usually, if that's would be the case. So I in, in, in our team, that's my law firm I work at. We are covering each other for these last parts. So that's why right now it works very well. Then of course, you can have the issue of timelines that that's also an often the question I get. So M and A transactions are very high pace and can come from one day to another. You can get a call, hey, we have to start tomorrow. You have to get your calendar ready. But then again, let's say I have an ongoing court case. Those days I am still flexible in in having my colleagues who can assist to make all this work if that's the situation arises. Normally the good part about dispute resolution, you can plan a lot of around it. So that means if it's a less busy time of the year, then you can plan your dispute resolution draft and and that period, which is also beneficial as a lawyer to always have worked for your. Fantastic, I appreciate it. And, and that's very interesting having the choice and in making that conscious choice. So very, very interesting. I wanted to ask you a little more about, you know, your, your story and career as well. I saw that you did an LLM at UC Hastings in, in the US and I wanted to ask you how, how did that experience go? How was, you know, the, the exposure to international business law? How did that influence your career, and what skills or knowledge from that experience have been most valuable? To you, yes, that's LM. I will never regret that decision. There was a one of the best years of my life. So I can only encourage people to, if you have any considerations to go study abroad, it will give you many benefits. And yes, what are these benefits that they come in in in many ways, both professionally, but also personally. That year is it's it's very good for you professionally. I am, I was studying in San Francisco, very nice law school. I used to Hastings. It had some in very interesting classes that I would never be able to find back home. We had classes like leadership skills for lawyers, very specific venture capital startup classes, you know, from Silicon Valley. We had highly, well, highly skilled professors coming in about telling about negotiation skills so that there are many different ways and classes, courses that I could not find back home and which gave me professionally very much. Then you have the other side, which I think is a very important side if you want to become an international transactional lawyer or just even cross-border international lawyer. At some point you build up relationships with in my, in my case, we had where 30 Bertie Elms in my year from coming from all over the world. That already makes you focus at that point on, you know, learning new people from all over the world that different cultures. They they come from. Some of them are still my very close friends today in Brazil, like Republic of all over the world, Paraguay. So I still see them today, visit them. So I have a private relationship with them. But also it's I also see now that it's also beneficial the work wise, which should not be the plan itself back then, but that just comes automatically. At some point you will see they also end up some of them in law firms around the world and do cross-border transactions. So there are many benefits from that. You have your personal development, this world that year, you get different perspectives. I was working a lot, studying a lot, but back home, then you have that here, get everything that you can see everything from the outside. You get a really good perspective on what do you actually want with your life, with your career. So when you come back and these in my case, I was very determined on I'm going to do this, this and this. But from now on, that would be harder to to make those like high level decisions when you're in the middle of everything with your work and with your law school back home. So it gives you time to reflect as well. Amazing. And you you're telling us a little bit about your story in the beginning of this podcast. It must have been quite, you know, a family accomplishment, right for you to be doing an alarm in the US getting even more specialized in law after, you know, being a lawyer itself not being what plan that you had for for your whole life. So I really love hearing that. Yeah, exactly. Life takes you ways that you would never expect, and that has been the case in my example. At least amazing and looking at you know, the the corporate work, the trends that you might see in they are commercial contracts. What are some changes or developments that you see impacting lawyers over the the next few years from where you are right now in the world? Yes, I, I see the, the, the, I see the different trend right now from our own clients that these years, I guess it's a trend all over the world. But our clients now, they send us, they, they ask the questions themselves first to the AI module and they sent this draft that they got from the AI. You know, we see that a lot. And then we have to, to go through that, that document that that AI has made. And it's from what I see so far, it's not, it's not working. But of course, at some point this will start working and then we have to be implementing this even even more. But I am I as a lawyer and my generation right now, I do have a general respect for the challenges that the new generation generation will have with this. I imagine that law schools right now, even in the beginning of your career as a lawyer, you do not necessarily have the full foundation, the full legal from the legal method. You don't have that 100% figure it out yet, to be honest, when you're at law school or when you're on your early years of your career. So I have a concern in that sense that, that the law, well, the law schools really have to integrate this AI and the learning of the risk related to, to, to implement that in law schools to implement strong guidelines and how you how you also use this in practice and how you prompt your questions to the AI learning machine. So, Casper, to finish our podcast today, I wanted to ask you what advice would you give to young lawyers or younger lawyers who are starting their careers, especially those who are specifically interested in a commercial? International Practice. Well, let me let me give you 3 concrete advice in, in this regard. I, I would say if you're interested in the international practice just already start now thinking about it. Seek exposure abroad. As I mentioned, it can be through your studies, it can be through your works, it can be through networks, building up relationships with like minded around the world. That's good to start. Now then I would say as a #2 invest in your future is what I normally tell my younger associates spent by that I mean time is, is is an asset. So invest your time already now as a student that can be at your at the law school, spend that extra hour to make a really nice product. If you already work, spend that extra hour as well to get that interesting case, to be a part of that interesting case and spend those extra hours to understand the case that you will get. Because when you spend these extra hours, you will invest in your future. And that in the long run will give you more interesting cases. You will be a part of the, yeah, the interesting casing as I, as I mentioned. But it can also be spend that extra hour doing a social activity with somebody. So it doesn't only have to be professionally in that sense. It can just go out. You can go one-on-one with a good relation or build up a new relation with someone. You can go out in groups. But basically just already be aware now that it's very good for, for your future as an attorney, as a lawyer to start building up relationships early. The earlier the better and keep those relationships, keep them warm throughout the years. That's also very important. And three is the last advice. Never be afraid of asking questions. I think this is also why I'm a part of this right now. And most people will be very interested in giving back to to the younger generations with their own advice. So just never be afraid of asking people to offer advice. And then also, if you have some specific people you're inspired by, you know, study them, what do they do? And also reach out to them and just always seek knowledge. And that would be my free advice to to end and wrap. Up. Amazing. Thank you so much once again for being in the podcast today, Catherine, and thank you all for listening to today's episode. Thank you, Claudio.