Immigration, Identity, and Opportunity with Talitha Krenk

Welcome to studying law around the world. I'm Claudio. Claus in each episode. I talk with lawyers, law students, and professors from different parts of the world to talk about legal education, careers, and what the profession looks like in real life. We talk about the hard parts, the surprises, and the decisions that shaped their paths. Whether you're planning to study abroad, thinking about working in another legal system, or just curious about how law works around the world, this podcast is for you. So many of the guests on this podcast have talked about how important it is to have strong writing skills as a lawyer. It's true, written communication is essential in this profession, but it can also be one of the trickiest skills to master. If you find your writing feels a bit clunky, or you're getting a lot of edits on your work, or perhaps you're breaking into an English speaking jurisdiction for the first time, Grammatica International can help. I'm Rebecca Lockwood, the lawyer, mediator and educator behind Grammatica, and we help lawyers and law students to write more sharply, speak more clearly, and advance their careers with group training and one-on-one skills coaching designed just for legal professionals. I have worked with so many lawyers like you who are exceptionally smart, qualified and capable, but need a bit of guidance to stand out in a competitive legal market. And I get it myself, having lived and worked in five countries during my 17 years in law and education. Whether you're looking to sharpen your writing skills generally, refresh your CV, or draft an application for a law program, Grammatica can help. Visit gramatica.co to learn more. Today I have the opportunity to host Talita Crank, who has an incredible international career. She has done an LM and a JD in Indiana and now works at a multinational company in the US. Thank you so much for joining us today, Talita. Thank you for having me. I'm very happy to share a little bit of my story and inspire other students, attorneys and international people like me. And you start off our conversation today. I'd love to hear a little bit about yourself, if you could start by introducing yourself and also sharing a little bit about your journey from Jerome Peso in Brazil to becoming an international attorney in the US. But in my career back in Brazil in 2007 when I started law school there and I came from a family of attorneys, so was easy to choose which professional I wanted because since I was very young, I used to go to my mom's law firm and help her with administrative things. So I grew up in a law firm. Then I graduated in grazing 2011. I took the Brazilian Bar I exam when I was sewing law school and legal license in 2012 and I joined the Ministry of Public of Paraiba, which is our state prosecutors office. At that time. I wanted to be a prosecutor and I stayed there for 3 1/2 years and I've never thought about having an international career before. I wanted to be a state prosecutor. But then life happened and I met my husband in Brazil and he's American. And when the relationship started to be more serious in that we decided to get married and moved to the US, I still wanted to be a lawyer. So I'm one of those people who chose to be a lawyer twice and I had to restart my career in Indiana. At that time, I could not just take an element in the bar exam like some states in the US allows you to do. I had to to do the entire JD Juris Dr. the course, the three-year full time course to be able to sit for the bar Indiana. So then I started my career back in high school doing an LLM a finished in one year and a half. And then I started the JD after graduation. So was back-to-back. I was in law school during the pandemic, so it took me a while to graduate. So instead of three, I graduated in four with LLM and JD. I, I took like like 5 years of law school again, five years and I have to be more specific was like a journey everything again. And during that time I joined association, I was president of the Masters of Law association. I worked for the attorney General Indiana. So I had the opportunity of doing a lot of internships again, meeting new people. So even though I was back in high school was a wonderful time because I had the opportunity to actually have my career in the US too, like from the beginning and build that. So after life school, I decided that I was wanting to practice immigration law because I wanted to help immigrants like me basically, and I had already some clients for all my presence in the Internet. And I opened my own law firm, Crank Law. After a year and a half with my law firm, I received an invitation from a recruiter to come and join the process, the selection process of a multinational in the United States. So today I relocated from Indiana to Colorado and I'm integration manager and council for this multinational company. Amazing that's that's quite the journey and an incredible story. Something that I loved you to go and luck was people who come in the podcast with guests. Here is a little bit of the the back story of of those choices in in the career they took. And I'd love to ask, going back to Brazil, how those early experiences that you had working in human rights and prosecution shaped the kind of lawyer you wanted to? Become, I think what I have learned throughout my career with very diverse experiences that I had in the past was there's there are people behind each case. It is not just paperwork. So I'll be on the prosecutor side. I've been on the attorney side. I was a mediator judge by King Brazil and all this position helped me to learn that there are people behind and our profession gives us a lot of powers. So humanize the papers, know that it's alive, their people, their dreams, their stories behind those cases. It is what I could get the most from all my experiences. It's not just writing and reading and correcting, but it's also learning that their lives at that are on our hands. And thinking now about the work you have an international company and also the work you had in your firm, I'd love to hear a little bit of, you know, maybe trends or challenges that you see right now in corporate immigration. Well, with the current administration right now, we are under Trump. We have been having a lot of challenges because policies are changing daily. Basically every day they're new thing going on, a new executive order, a new policy. So keeping up to date to those decisions are being very hard. Also, the termination of a lot of programs that we rely on like humanitarian paroles, increasing fees, changing procedures. So it is a very challenging administration. All those decisions impact our business directly. For example, some of our current employees were terminated due to the revocation of some paroles, some work permits. So our budget, it's suffers the impact when the government increases fees overnight. So I think those are the biggest challenges we are having right now under the Trump administration. And as an attorney, we need to be up to date to everything to advise the business. So every day I start my day and I I joke that I don't know what is going to happen because maybe during the day still having this seizure that will impact my job directly is being definitely very challenging. I. See, I understand early in this podcast you mentioned you have a an online presence on the Internet of the Brazilian public and you've received the awards, you've been interviewed by CNN and spoken at universities are associations. So I also wanted to ask, how has sharing your voice publicly shaped your career and you opportunities you've been involved? At definitely helped me a lot with networking. My online presence was very organic because I started back in 2016 when I started studying English in the US. So I couldn't drive because of all the paperwork and documents we had. Like when we changed countries, we know we just need to do everything again. So I didn't have a drivers license and I had to wait for my husband to leave work to pick me up at school. And during that time, I had to do something. So I started sharing via Instagram story like this is my life in the United States and this is my school and this is the university and look how is the classroom. But back on that time, not a lot of people just to do that. So it became interesting and people knew that I was determined to have my career back and become a lawyer in the United States. So people actually were interested to follow that journey and they started following me and going through everyday school, everyday life. And, you know, following those things, I was able to inspire a lot of young attorneys, a lot of international people to start their international career too. Because sometimes you think it's impossible. It's so hard. It is hard, it is, but it's not impossible. You know, it takes a lot of determination, it takes a lot of hard work, but it's not impossible. So sometimes when people were seeing that, they could see that it was possible. And because of that, I was able to have a network of attorneys, international attorneys, people from all around the world. And those people were helping me when I graduated and I became a lawyer, either referring me, recommending me for clients or even for a opportunity. My job opportunity today came from a person who Naomi from Instagram and recommended me to a recruiter. And you know, now I am now. And then I invited another friend to kind of join a selection process in my current company and she got a job too. So you know, the power of networking, think, expose yourself to people helps a lot on the long run. I started my journey 2016 and you see I still have consequences that come in like came from people who were, you know, following me back in 2016. Networking, definitely. That's fantastic. And, and looking back, what are some of the, the lessons that you've learned through this this journey? So I know you've mentioned, you know, networking has been so important in all of that. I also loved what you said about humanizing the documents and seeing the person and their dreams behind every case. But I also know you learned a lot about resilience, leadership, and navigating these very different legal systems. Definitely resilience because it took a lot of years, hard work, study I'm to get what I am today. Coming to a new country is not easy at all, especially with a different language. So I had to learn English. I knew English from Brazil, but of course my English was not as fluent as is today. So I had to learn the language plus legal English, plus going back to a different system from civil law to common law. So everything, my life just went upside down when I started my journey in the United States. So resilience to understand that things take time, but those things will last forever. Today I have a career, I have two diplomas that I conquered and nobody can get away from me. So as a woman, especially an immigrant, this is very powerful because I know today my education brings me jobs, brings me opportunities. And even though I mean, in the United States without my family, I, I can still survive here. You know, I have a profession that I can raise my child, I can make money, I can have a life here. And those were consequences of those difficult times I had to go through to conquer my career here. So that is the most powerful lesson I've learned. Things take time, they are slow, they are more difficult for immigrants, but we can't give up. Other things that I learned during this journey, of course, is the power of networking, power of communication, the power of telling your story, the power of knowing that your differences are also your powers. So the fact that I have an accent, that I speak Portuguese, that I keep from Brazil, that I have a different legal background, in the beginning was intimidating because as I was thinking, oh, I have an accent, my English is not as good. Sometimes I can't commit some errors. But then after a while, I discovered that this is my main power. The place I worked today wanted me because I was different, because I was the first, because I had the legal background somewhere else, because I was able to relate to other immigrants. I was able to not be just a council, not be just a lawyer, but the point of contact and be a human. Because as I said, the soft skills today are valid everywhere. So I think for people who come from another country is learning that your differences are your strength and know how to use that in your favor. Fantastic. And to wrap up today's episode, I wanted to ask you what advice would you give to lost students or young lawyers who are thinking about building an international career? Definitely learn English, that's the first thing I can tell you. Doesn't matter where you are right now, but learning a second language, especially English, can open doors everywhere, even in Brazil. I work for a multinational company today that also brings people from Brazil. So not only the people who are in the United States can get opportunities, but you can get opportunities in your home country. So if you join a multinational in your home country, maybe this multinational can bring you somewhere else. But those things will happen if you are very dedicated, if you perform well and if you learn English or maybe a second language in the country, you'll, you'll want it to go. So this is the first advice I give to anyone. Then research, research a lot, come with a plan, have a plan, a financial plan, a plan for scholarship, plan for your university, a plan for your city, a plan for everything. Just plan your life, plan the life of your dreams and start from the bottom. Like you start researching small things like what is the cost of the L and what is the cost of the JD. Is there any way that I can get a scholarship, what I can do in Brazil that can help me to get another opportunity in a different country? I talk a lot about Brazil cause Brasilia, but what are the opportunities you have in your home country that can help you in the long run? What what type of law I can start working in Brazil, but can also serve as an experience to my next step internationally. So coming with a plan helps you in the long run. So try to find people that have done the journey you want to pursue. So we talked a lot of about networking, but learning is where the advice is. Those people can give to you what the challenges those people face before can help you to have a big picture of all the challenges you're gonna face and plan and talk and meet people and invite people for a coffee. Invite people to be your mentor. Have mentors. That helps a lot. So those are the type of advice I give to people. I think putting yourself out there and getting information, getting feedback will help you a lot on the long run. Amazing. Thank you so much for taking the time to sharing those. Thank you so much. Thank you for the opportunity of sharing my story. Do that like it's definitely possible. It takes time, but it's possible. Today in the United States, I conquered all my dreams, and all those dreams came from education. I dreamed why I wasn't my school to work for a multinational company, to work for a diverse place, to be able to share my culture, to be able to work with everything I have to offer, which is my language, my culture, my law school in Brazil, my law school in the US, my English. Everything was very important to me. And I found a position today that I'm able to do everything. So it's definitely possible it also I'm available. I'm still available for everybody who needs me. Like any advice, anything other young professional, all the attorneys need, I'm available. I'm on the Internet as rewire. So just reach out if you need some encouragement in this journey. And thank you again for having me here and a congratulations on your project. Thank you all for tuning into today's episode and thanks again, Talita for all the incredible advice. Thank you. Bye. Bye.