The Business of AI, Infrastructure, and the T-Shaped Lawyer with Saad Minhas

Welcome to studying law Around the world. I'm Claudio Claus. In each episode, I talk with lawyers, law students, and professors from different parts of the world to talk about legal education, careers, and what the profession looks like in real life. We talk about the hard parts, the surprises and the decisions. That shaped their paths. Whether you're planning to study abroad. Thinking about. Working in another legal system or just curious about how law works around the world? This podcast is for. You Hello everybody, Welcome to another episode of Studying Law around the world. Today I have the opportunity to host Saad Minhas. He is a Canadian in-house lawyer working at the intersection of real estate, infrastructure, energy and technology. He's had roles in different different companies all across North America and also has been an active member of the legal profession with mentorship initiatives and and many others. I'm very, very excited to be chatting with him today. Thank you so much for making the time to come to the podcast. Hi Claudia, thank you so much for having me. Introduce yourself to our listeners and walk us through little bit about your journey. Oh, thank you. So I would. Say infrastructure has been a through line in my career from the beginning. I started out as a consultant on large public private partnerships working on major infrastructure such as hospitals, highways, transit and the like. And so it made sense for me when I began my articles that I would continue in that vein. And so I've had the opportunity to essentially be able to weave the various elements of infrastructure. And when I say infrastructure, I mean broadly on real estate construction and power. And so elements of that in each case, whether it was in government, then with a major bank and then with a real estate startup and following that and for the past 6:00-ish years in data centres, working with some of the leading companies essentially developing data centres. Amazing. So working from across these major organizations, including global banks, infrastructure agencies, including also companies focused on AI powered data centres, what have been, you know, maybe a turning point that has shaped your career so far? I think that early on in my career, you know, my mentors have always kind of emphasized #1 being solution oriented and looking at the problems that I am best equipped to address, being curious throughout that process. And so the turning points that shaped my career were really about opportunities for growth and where I could be of use. And so although there are plenty of real estate and construction lawyers who have worked for in real estate developers or law firms specializing in those areas, I have kind of always drawn myself to unconventional ways of doing that. And so for that reason, I think that ultimately trusting that I can be of value to an organization and value there. And that has always kind of taken me towards these turning points. And, and some of them were, I think by my own choosing. Others, for example, you know, when my term in government was up and they were having contract rules, I, I was then prompted to find something else. We work where I was at for, for a little while and had its, you know, well documented ups and downs. And so I found myself at the end of that journey. And that's perfectly fine. I think that ultimately, whether you are choosing when your time ends or whether that time is chosen for you, you still have decisions to make in terms of where you go next and how you take the experience that you've built and redirect that towards new opportunities. And Tastic, I appreciate you bringing up the, the idea of, you know, mentors and the role they played in your career so far. You know, I've, I've heard different things already on one point talking about, you know, the, the opportunities you could come to, to find if you will try to keep up your practice. As I had the opportunity to chat with quite a few practitioners who who did find, you know, in a way, a niche in law that they were able to really specialize on and, and really get, you know, an interesting career out of it, really focusing on their area. I'm curious to hear your thoughts on that. What are what are some things that you that you think are maybe that you would even tell your younger self when the first few years of your practice keeping it? General, I mean, this is a great question and and honestly one that I asked myself at different stages and you know, others have asked me, I've certainly asked my mentors. The term that is commonly used is like T shaped lawyers. And so meaning that you have a certain degree of expertise, but you know, still a versatility towards different and other sometimes often parallel, but sometimes not even parallel areas of law that you stretch yourself out on and and still try to advise on. I think that that is integral in today's marketplace. The reality is that we are now being challenged to do more with less. Sometimes leverage resources such as AI, but not necessarily limited to AI, but really around commercial decision making that required need to have an in-depth understanding of the area where in fact you are you have the most expertise. And then in addition to that, really push yourself and drive yourself to stretch that capability into areas that you aren't familiar with such that when you are dealing with novel issues, you are able to tackle those or areas where there are others that are specialists that you were able to tackle those as well. Because the reality is that, you know, now it seems that we have far more resources at our fingertips in order to be able to tap into, you know, deep research or expertise. But that was always the case. Times you simply have to look at a new issue, thematically review it and provide your best advice. And obviously, we have professional responsibility to leverage experts in the field when that is appropriate. And you absolutely should, because those people are experts for a reason. But it's not to say that you should not challenge yourself to really follow through on what it is they are doing, learn from them, and then be able to apply that knowledge in other ways. So to answer your question in very, very long manner, it's both ends. You nowadays, I believe, have to be an expert as well as a generalist. And when it comes to specific areas of law, when somebody tells me that they practice real estate law, I'm imagining automatically know somebody who's doing conveyances, who's doing, you know, just residential work, some commercial real estate, maybe leasing, maybe a construction lien work. It seems like your career and and the work you've done shows quite quite a bit of a different side. Of the practice. So I'd watch a little more, you know, about Euro as a, as a real estate lawyer in different phases of your career, but really working, you know, with technology, with large scale projects, with, you know, global infrastructures. So can you tell us a little bit more about what you know that practice can look like? Yeah. I mean, I, I've always just been curious about unorthodox ways of practicing law. And so, you know, much as I respect and appreciate, you know, practicing law firm, spending a long time in that environment was really not something that I was as interested in in the beginning phases of my career. And the modality that I wanted to see was really looking at places that I could bring my expertise and also challenge myself to learn more and push myself to be able to advise in spaces where they, you know, would not people wouldn't necessarily realize that you would have, for example, a real estate lawyer or a construction lawyer or a, you know, an energy lawyer. I still for that reason, you know, being able to be in, in places like banks and advising there was always an interesting to me because I was able to kind of messed up my capability in, in ways that I think I would not necessarily have had the the level of exposure to had I been in a specialist shop. And similarly, within data centres, I think this was like particularly interesting because in a manner that you have within a law firm and sometimes in-house teams as well, you're often streamed into a particular practice area. I, of course, mastered the task that I was given and the responsibility that I had within a particular area. When I felt comfortable in my stakeholders, felt comfortable that they were being supported, I continued to branch out into areas that were adjacent to that. And so, you know, sometimes we look at it also Nexus, you know, you have that between areas of law and practice areas as well. So I, I do think that there's a, a through line and a connectivity between areas like real estate and procurement and construction and energy, particularly on major infrastructure projects when these are all components, including things like financing and commercial agreements and tax, etcetera. We're really knowing and understanding really cradle to grave of the deal. And my thought processes on this was never just about the legal practice is, yes, of course, I have to be able to master that and provide the best advice to my clients, my stakeholders. But I think even beyond that, when I consider this as a recipient of that advice as a consultant, I would always think to myself, I want that solution. I don't really care how it's delivered. But I think the greater consistency I have within that and being able to carry that file from start to finish is incredibly valuable because it creates a level of accountability and familiarity that is particularly helpful because these projects are not always separated phase by phase. You may have different contractors come in on a project phase by phase, but that handover and that consistency across the project can be incredibly valuable in order to deliver that that asset. I'm curious here as, as you spoke about that intersection of real estate, energy infrastructure and so forth. I know that one, one of the interesting points was, you know, how are they related? How, how do we see all of this coming together in the, in the practice? And I really appreciate you mentioning both the the idea of the the T shaped lawyer and also the idea of being commercially a good advisor, not only in the law, but really helping out in the business as you were really an important part of the business when you're acting in house. So tell me more about that. How are those connected and, and maybe how should lawyers or law students who are just, you know, kind of coming into the market this shift? With AI, there's been a lot of discussion about how we use AI and AI tools and I think that that's important and it's critical. What there is significantly less discussion about, although you will read a lot more about it in, you know, the trade press, you know, the financial press is around the business of AI and AI infrastructure. Essentially, if we are comparing it to, you know, driving your car to work and how integral that is to your day. Let's also consider the automobile makers and the people that built the highway and essentially the infrastructure that allows all of this to actually occur. And that to me is very interesting and very exciting. I think because you the look full of time sensitivity on these transactions is unlike anything I have seen before. You know, when they talk about the AI race, it is fully treated like a race. And so you need to be able to provide advice and really commercially oriented advice in a very, very short period of time and ensure that in fact, your advice is sufficient to carry that asset and that project throughout the life cycle. Because when you look at a data centre as the thing that essentially enables AI to function the way that it does, a data centre is typically intended to function for at least a period of 10 to 15 years. So a decision that you make within a period of a week, or if you're lucky, a month, needs to be able to carry forward for years and years to come and the life cycle of that asset and sometimes the evolution of how that asset is utilized. So touch on another question that you asked around being business savvy, business oriented. It's really important to learn about, I think, the components of how your clients think about an issue and when it comes, in my example to data centres, really looking at what drives the business. What is? What is? The profit incentive for these projects, what does success look like? How are you serving the customer? These are all questions that you should be asking before you are undertaking your particular area of advice that you are providing that is critical to success. Success because it's your North star. It is. It should guide and dictate every decision. And in fact, it should help you analyze risk as well because you are of course, ideally an enabler of success. But at the same time, you need to understand that sometimes there is risk in those outcomes and how do you identify in that pathway to providing that advice where the risk can arise and perhaps other channels in which you can achieve the same outcome but perhaps with lesser? Risk I don't think that everybody has the the privilege of having a career as diverse as yours while we know navigating through the same specialty area, I see that you've moved, you know, between public sector, private sector in house. We know what are some of the differences that you noticed in your in your career as you went through these different spots? You know how how legal work happens across these environments and maybe even you know our our audience here, our students, they are early career professionals you. Know, I'm so glad you asked me. I'm a firm believer that the the space that you work in does not define you, nor does it define your career. I think that there are stars in every organization or form of practice. And the way to be a star in that is to really look at the task in front of you and not necessarily being dictated by the perception of your environment. And that sounds like super fluffy. So bit more specific about it. Look like some of the truisms or you know, ideas about how government can sometimes be bureaucratic or, you know, banks can be, you know, very risk averse and still to make decisions or startups can move very quickly or data, you know, large tech companies that can, you know, sometimes be not considering and users of the public in the same way that, you know, government, for example, as a responsibility to the taxpayer. Look, some of these things, you might see echoes of these within organizations, but the reality is that you will always have people within these organizations and people as individuals and sometimes as a collectives as well, are thoughtful, far more thoughtful than sometimes we in a blanket manner give them credit to being the the level of deliberation I saw in in government and thoughtfulness about how this impacts end users and communities and in banks about considering, you know, people who, you know, their lives rely on the services of a bank or, you know, within a large technology companies on how they can, you know, support communities at to grow. It's far more than you know, sometimes to kind of ideas of these types of organizations will give them credit for. But taking it back to, you know, people's approaches and how they navigate their career in these spaces. Look, if you want to be in one particular area or one particular modality of work for the entirety of your career, power to you. That's fantastic. You are able to deploy your skill set in a space that you like and you can grow in that and that's incredible. And if you do like a level of versatility in terms of you know, where you work and apply your skill set, then actually you can do that too. And you can do it again and again and again in your career if you so choose. And I don't think that it necessarily has to be limiting. I think that the only limitation that you would have is your own ability to demonstrate that you were a value within that organization. And you can communicate it effectively when you are you have the opportunity to do so because there are parallels across whole host of sectors. And as long as you're able to demonstrate how that exists, that you are well positioned to be able to to make moves as you. Please, I love that. Thank you so much for sharing it. I think that's so important. We are a lot of people who are kind of LEDs by their curiosity through their career as opportunities arise, they were able to take different directions narrative that you're building for for yourself and for your career. You've been involved in quite a few complex negotiation adventures, really high stake projects. When I think about, you know, kind of skills do you use in those situations. Law school gets a little bit of a bad reputation for not preparing people really for for the world of work. I'm curious, are there, you know, a few sets of skills that that you thought that have mattered the most, you know, specifically in these kinds of high stakes situations that really helped you to navigate through? Them, absolutely. I would say from pretty early on I'd read something somewhere about the type of learner you are. You know, whether you are an auditory learner or you learn through, you know, visuals or through reading, etcetera. I don't think it necessarily needs to be definitive. I think we learn in a multitude of ways, but I do think that it can help having some thought towards that because particularly when you're dealing with complex subject matter, it really helps to be able to have that, you know, ingested in a way that is preferable to you Because it can seem very daunting at the outset. But when you play it out in your head in the way that suits you, you can find ways to simplify it a little bit. And, you know, as a practical reference, sometimes I will, you know, write things down, draw things out, you know, record them and listen back to them. And it seems, you know, silly almost. But I think, you know, particularly when you're dealing with something complex and you want to make sure that you understand it. Look it First off, it never hurts to ask questions, you know, particularly when you're being thoughtful about it and you've already made a level of effort to, to understand the issues. Any questions that address the gaps and demonstrate that you have clearly attempted to to learn this yourself are typically welcome. But even beyond that, I think being able to navigate and understanding complex issues in a way that is receptive to you is is very helpful. I remember when I was in government, I had already been working on large JV projects as a consultant for many years. So I walked in thinking like, OK, I should understand this. This should be, you know, fairly familiar. And when I started working on it and I don't know what it is, I think a law degree comes with a very high degree of self doubt. So I began to question whether I knew what I actually knew. And I just had to, you know, take a moment, deep breath, pause, draw out the structure of how the JV was set up on the project that I was, I was working on supporting. And that helped, that helped a lot because I was like, OK, this isn't so complex. And then I asked you a couple of questions from my colleagues to make sure that, you know, I really understood what in fact, I thought I understood. And they were able to confirm it. You know, since then, now that self doubt will always be there. I think that anytime you, you feel like the stakes are high, you, you question your capability, you know, with a bit of practice and, you know, a little bit of time and, and thoughtfulness, I really don't think that there's any. Particular area of law that is truly rocket science. I mean, there are incredibly intelligent lawyers out there who you can also again, use this as resources to tap into, but at least have like a baseline understanding what's on my effort. I think I think most people are very capable. I love that. Thank you so much for sharing it. And I know you're being involved in, in quite a few different projects you've been involved in, in pro bono work, in access to justice initiatives and a lot of mentorship as well. So I'm curious, you know, how, how do you think that lawyers can stay connected should should that side of the profession? So I have to give credit where it's due. I got that from my parents. I have been a lifelong volunteer because I've always been thought that's responsibility that I have and I found it incredibly enriching and rewarding to be able to get back in in every which way I possibly can. I think that the level of effort that it takes for an individual to do that pays off dramatically more for the recipient of that assistance. And so for me, it's the best investment you can possibly make of your time and whether it's pro bono work, which by the way, I think that has made me a better lawyer always. You know, I think about some of the legal aid clinics I've worked with and supported and being able to provide for blowing advice to people that I know or or have have come to me. You have to be responsible in doing so. You have to be very thoughtful. But that I think sometimes increased standard of care. Is it really, it really improves your capability. And so I, I recommend it to, to anyone, like, I mean, access to justice is a huge challenge. And, you know, whether you were doing things in your community or at a global level, you know, we are all citizens and we have the gift of advocacy as lawyers. And that's something that I think that we should, we should take forward any way that we are able to do. I think that that's a, a responsibility that we all have. And as far as mentorship is concerned, I've been very fortunate to have incredible mentors. I'm simply, you know, passing along along the great advice that I've received and and I welcome having those conversations at at any opportunity. Is there a piece of advice that you'd like to give to someone trying to build, you know, a global, future oriented legal career? Somebody different? Great pieces of advice they received overtime, but the one I always come back to is the one for my parents around that values, values translate no matter where you go, values translate. I think that sometimes feel conscious about how they fit in and depending on the context you're you're in and the people that you're around, that can certainly feel daunting and sometimes rightfully so. But I will say that being kind, being decent, staying true to your values, irrespective of, you know, whether those are necessarily reflected back at you, I think has always paid off. I think that ultimately, you know, decency, it really does overwhelm other things. And I think that that also means sometimes decency and respect and, and these types of values that are, are often shared values. They also dictate you professionally because if you somebody gives you a task, you have family values and understanding and the respect to put hard work into that and deliver and turn that around and be clear in your communications to the extent that you're able. I think that that is that's always been the guiding light for me. And I think that it's something that I hope people can kind of take forward as as relatable to them irrespective of where those values. Derived from fantastic and I just wanted to thank you once again for making the time to come on the show. And thank you all for tuning into today's episodes and listening to this episode. Thank you so much for having me, I really appreciate it.